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Greenpace: Nuclear fusion project senseless stupidity

MicroHydro writes:

Far from being a solution, the nuclear option stalls real action to combat dangerous climate change. It is taking away the money for real solutions that are ready and economically available at a large scale, such as wind energy. Fusion energy - if it would ever operate - would create a serious waste problem, would emit large amounts of radioactive material, and could be used to produce materials for nuclear weapons.

Poster's Comments:

1) radioactive structural materials

2) tritium, used in hydrogen bombs

Scoop

Posted on Wednesday, June 29 @ 16:09:01 PDT by Carrie

Most read story about Hydrocarbon Alternatives:
You can close the site now, energy problems are solved.

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Re: Greenpace: Nuclear fusion project senseless stupidity (Score: 1)
by Caoimhan on Wednesday, June 29 @ 16:26:16 PDT
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Radioactive materials? What are they? How long will they remain radioactive? What kind of radiation? In what amount?

Making a fusion bomb is an order of magnitude more difficult than a fission bomb. And you have to have a fission bomb to initiate a second-stage fusion bomb.

Re: Greenpace: Nuclear fusion project senseless stupidity by MarkR on Wednesday, June 29 @ 17:22:51 PDT

Re: Greenpace: Nuclear fusion project senseless stupidity (Score: 1)
by Licho on Wednesday, June 29 @ 17:54:53 PDT
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Erm, tritium is fuel, and stays in the tokamak, it's not a waste, and it's far harder to manipulate than plutonium. How can you write such nonsense??
Do you think that "terrorirsts' (already having nuclear bomb - which is neccesary for hydrogen bomb) will steal whole tokamak, and extract tritium from it or what?
Really stupid comment on tritium..

Re: GreenpeaceStupidity more like. (Score: 1)
by ubercynicmeister (OzSteamer atitsafake .yahoo.com) on Wednesday, June 29 @ 20:20:52 PDT
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Once again, Greenpeace reveals itself to be as clueless and ignorant as the "cornucopians". Remember, Greenpeace defined (and still defines, to my knowledge) Peak Oil as an Oil Industry Conspiracy to "make more greenhouse gases and cause global warming".

Yeah, right, and how the heck is one gunna pollute if one has no oil-based machinery to run? The idiots at Greenpeace talk about "coal" as being "the worst pollution", and seem to ignore mightily the role of Oil in pollution. In ANY case - how the heck will we extract COAL, when we have no oil?

Coal is mined by machines that use diesel fuel, which is made from Oil (yes, it really is!)

It is transported to the rail-head by machines that use diesel fuel, which is made from Oil (yes, it really is!)

It is towed down to the port (or power-station) by machines that use diesel fuel, which is made from Oil (yes, it really is!)

It is transported over the oceans, by machines that use diesel fuel, which is made from Oil (yes, it really is!).

OK, so how do we do all of this - when we ain't got no oil?

MicroHydro - some points on nuclear fusion:

The "structural materials" of a human being are naturally radioactive. The Sun is HIGHLY radioactive. Naturally.

The difference between a "fission" (ie: traditional) Nuclear Reactor and a fusion reactor is that the FUSION reactor remains radioactive for a few hours, according to all the evidence, whereas fission reactors remain radioactive for thousands of years.

A "serious waste problem" does not exist with Fusion. With Fission, yes.

"Could be used to produce material for nuclear weapons"? HOW? This lack of nuclear-bomb material is why the military never supported the fusion reactors, as versus the ones they could use: the fission reactors. They can't make bombs from fusion reactors, so they didn't bother subsidising the technology.

Tritium, y'see, is NOT "used" in hydrogen bombs - Lithium 6 is. Lithium 6 HAS to be made by a very involved series of processes - which, at some point involves using things made in a fission reactor. If they needed a fusion reactor to make Lithium 6, they wouldn't HAVE hydrogen bombs, because they don't have a fusion reactor - only experimental prototypes which might work, when scaled up.

What happens inside the thermonuclear bomb is that a fission (atomic) bomb is set off inside a shell of Lithium 6. The "blast pulse" of neutrons hits the Lithium 6 and starts converting it (fission) to Dueterium and Tritium.

That alone would not be enough to make it go bang.

Then the expanding blast-pulse of highly superheated and energetic gas from the atomic bomb's "detonation" hits the Lithium 6 shell, causing the Lithium 6 (as it converts to deuterium and Tritium) to compress so much, the deuterium and tritium fuse.

It's a "three-way whammy", which is why it took so long to develop both atomic bombs and fusion bombs.

Thermonuclear bombs need the heat PLUS the pressure PLUS the neutron release. Remove any three, you get a bang, but not the multi-megatonne releases of concentrated energy that a fusion bomb would yield.

That's been the problem - up to now, doing fusion in a controlled, controllable manner has been, well, problematic.

It's interesting that the present proposal (and let's not forget, they've only agreed to "do" the project, they haven't built it) is that they might have results "in 10 year's time" (gee, 2015, Peak Oil will REALLY be tootin' by then!).

The word "might " is the correct one.

So, assuming this project goes flawlessly from start to finish (an impossible ask, but, please bear with me) , they will have exactly ONE fusion reactor , operating as an experimental facility, with the hope of making a lot more at the very time when our energy needs will be vastly out-stripping our energy supp

Read the rest of this comment...

Re: Greenpace: Nuclear fusion project senseless stupidity (Score: 1)
by WhistleWind on Thursday, June 30 @ 03:23:26 PDT
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I suspect the main drawback with fusion is that we will never get it to work. For all the
hype the scientists still nave no idea how to sustain the plasma in the tokomak long
enough to reach net positive energy for more than a few milliseconds at a time. Eddies
in the plasma caused by soliton waves cause it to lose energy very rapidly and the whole
thing becomes unstable.

If we do manage to get it working reliably, then yes it has big potential with fewer
hazards than conventional nuclear, but that is still generations away at least. It is very big
science, and I suspect that funding will dry up completely in the PO depression before ITER
is even built.

Also, if we do get it working and scale it up to megawatt or gigawatt production, imagine
what would happen if the plasma destabilised and breached the retaining magnetic field...

Re: Greenpace: Nuclear fusion project senseless stupidity (Score: 1)
by disciple72 on Thursday, June 01 @ 19:36:00 PDT
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Re: Greenpace: Nuclear fusion project senseless stupidity (Score: 1)
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