Klein/HHO Gas

ThunderChunky · Tar Sands Joined: Dec 09, 2005 Posts: 66

When you see the same scam rehashed over and over you dont need to waste your time reading the patents.

PD3 · Coal Joined: May 29, 2006 Posts: 1

There are any number of reasons to believe you can't burn water, starting with say Aristotle as well as personal experience with water. As far as I can tell from looking at the website, Klien is positing some sort of transitional state molecule which is stable until in the presence of a catalyst and which has an energy denisty more then three times greater than H2 itself, and that this "Aquygen™"can be generated with a net energy gain. This would entail a major re-write of every chemistry text. It's hardly worth going into the possible benefits from such a development so I'll just say it would possibly be a boon to cruise ships. I will take then the commonsense position that this is at best, cold fusion II. I do not however believe (as sometimes seems to be held in discussions of peak oil), that solutions are impossible and violence inevitable.

This is a list off teh top of my head of developments only from the US over the past what 150 years or so.
Light bulb,
recorded music
motion pictures
telephone (all Edison BTW)
Airplane (Bicycle repairmen)
Personal Computer (mouse, graphical interface, laser printer, ethernet all Palo Alto lab then Steve Wozniak)
Internet and Internet message boards
Google

One might come up with a similar list for medicine, anesthesia and so on and so forth. One might also argue reasonably that people are not any happier or better off despite these changes. The point is that it is (almost) never the technical issues which are the most difficult ones in solving a particular problem such as decreasing petroleum supply. It is whether people can rise above their fears and hatreds enough to allow the solution to occur peacefully. I leave you with three quotes of John Paul II which I hope and trust will not engender fear or hatred.

"Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes."

"Have no fear of moving into the unknown. Simply step out fearlessly knowing that I am with you, therefore no harm can befall you; all is very, very well. Do this in complete faith and confidence."

"From now on it is only through a conscious choice and through a deliberate policy that humanity can survive."

EnergyUnlimited · Fission Joined: May 15, 2006 Posts: 2581

Technically you CAN burn water eg in fluorine gas.
It will burn (with flames) according to equation:
2H2O + 2F2 = O2 + 4HF

You can even burn sand (with flames):
SiO2 + 2F2 = Si F4 + O2

However it is not a commercial proposal in ANY WAY (production of necessary fluorine is prohibitively expensive and energy hungry process and ecological problems with large amounts of HF are few orders of magnitude greater than those with freons for example.

Forgeting curiosities described above any water burning ideas to get net energy gain are silly "perpetual motion machine" proposals.

microbe · Coal Joined: May 30, 2006 Posts: 1

Grid51 · Coal Joined: Jun 24, 2006 Posts: 1

ChumpusRex2 · Tar Sands Joined: Mar 11, 2006 Posts: 77

EnergyUnlimited · Fission Joined: May 15, 2006 Posts: 2581

J-Rod · Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:20 am Post subject:

samuraisam · Coal Joined: Jul 21, 2006 Posts: 1

I also know Dennis Klein, personally. I've seen this product, personally. I believe it to be a scam, unfortunately. I would say do a little investigating into his past business history and this should give you a reasonable idea with whom you are dealing. Unfortunately, the many investors taken by all of this, did not and probably with suffer the consequences. In the meantime, Dennis Klein is living very well off his investors. Buyer beware!

entropyfails · Moderator Joined: Jun 30, 2004 Posts: 595

This one is easy...
From the patent:

WebHubbleTelescope · Intermediate Crude Joined: Jul 08, 2004 Posts: 904

daysailor · Coal Joined: Jul 25, 2006 Posts: 1 Location: Colorado

Might be a little more believeable if one could find documentation of a careful energy balance on the process. It should be easy enough to measure the watts input and the BTU/hr out in steady-state operation. Wonder why such results are so hard to find?

Eddy · Coal Joined: Oct 30, 2006 Posts: 1

As always the oil industries hold on the minds of it's users is strong, they don't want you to know that H2O or HHO is the most rapidly burning gas know to man, and that people all around the world have been using HHO as a fuel as far back as 1968 in the Phillippines. Now the US is falling behind and Masda is making it's HHO burning car, they have some of them running right now as i type. How can they work? It is easy everyone is fixsated on Hydrogen when it's the Oxygen that gives it it's power, that's how it works. For if you burn something in an Oxygen rich environment what will happen? I don't need to give you the answer to that or if I do you need to stop reading and get a clue. If you think you can get the same concentration of Oxygen in the air we breath than in these HHO genarators you way off base, and in that is there secret. They burn more efficently because there is more Oxygen present to burn the Hydrogen. Greed will be America's down fall as the rest of the world switches fuels we will still be in the dark ages. And too, let not what you have learn just go away in the dark parts of your mind and do something about it. Make or buy one of these things for yourself then and only then you will begin to see that you have been living in a dream world and the blanket will be lifted from your eyes.

Hydroman · Coal Joined: Dec 02, 2007 Posts: 2

HHO gas or Klein gas is a puzzel to most people who can't understand how it might help run an engine. Well, it is combustable and an engine has only so much internal volume to hold combustable or other gasses. If you lean back both the fuel and air your car will use less gas! The remaining volume can be filled up with HHO gas. It makes a 5 liter engine act like a smaller engine that is saving on gas. It has nothing to do with "water power", or energy from the void of the Universe. It is just like the lean control in a aircraft at 10,000 ft. You can lean the fuel back in thin air and use very little fuel. If you could get your car up to 10,000 ft, you could save gas just like in an airplane.

You can think of HHO just like ice in your glass of soft drink. You can fill up your glass with less soda pop if the glass if full of ice.

But in short, if you use less gas.... you will use less gas!
How simple is that?
To learn more, email me at byte312@aol.com

wtedb · Coal Joined: Jan 11, 2008 Posts: 1

Question ...
If a person was to run an internal combustion engine on Hydrogen, would it not have to be a two stroke engine with the valve timing such that the hydrogen/oxygen would be pulled into the cylinder on the downward stroke, then the intake valve close at the bottom of the stroke and the ingition fire the mixture off when the piston is at the bottom of the cylinder ??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dosn't the Hydrogen/Oxygen implode when it ignites and turn into a much smaller volume of water ..thus sucking the piston to the top of the cylinder ???

Basically a car running on hydrogen and oxygen (HHO) would have to be redesigned completely as far as valve and ignition timing are concerned as compared to the gas burning engines we know today ..now, this would be a totally different concept from using HHO as a suplement to a gas or Diesel engine ...

Your coments are welcome ....