Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas

racer88 · Coal Joined: Jun 06, 2008 Posts: 15

Is aney one using the ( Plans are free ) Smack's booster ? How's it working, I don't have room vertical under hood; but built small horizontal verson using half round plates cut from .029 stainles sheat, seamed to draw low current & make hho ok, Not enough to improve gass milage much,( 2 or 3 mpg ) but did seam to increace peformance. I am planing to build larger horazontal verson soon.

solarpoweredlasers · Tar Sands Joined: Oct 24, 2007 Posts: 35

racer88 · Coal Joined: Jun 06, 2008 Posts: 15

[quote="solarpoweredlasers"]

Nik-BG · Coal Joined: Jun 12, 2008 Posts: 1

Hi all!
I guess, as a HHO generator owner from Europe (yeah, check the IP, it is Sofia, Bulgaria, Europe), I might write my 2 cents to the thread.
Most of the people, denying the positive effect of the 2H2O2 gas mix are stating, this gas does not burn as efficient, as any petrol product. Now that is a fact. Producing 2H2O2 gas mixture just to use it as a fuel is nonsense. The work, needed by the alternator to produce the electricity to split the molecules of water, to produce the fuel, which is than burned in the engine.... Ok, one gets about 90% losses.
I see you deniers smiling! Yes, you won this one!
But I still recall my chemistry lessons back at school some 15 years ago. And according to chemistry, burning is a chemical process. Meaning, a chemical reaction. The ICE use a chemical reaction, called oxidation, to convert a fuel mixture (some chemicals) to heat + exhaust gases (other chemicals). As far as I remember, for a fast oxidation (also called burning) to take place, one needs instable chemicals (Diesel engine) or a spark or chemical ignition. In any case one can speed up or slow down any chemical reaction, using additional chemicals, called catalysers. Now. If you just for a moment stop denying the idea, you might accept, that the 2H2O2 gas mixture, one adds to the air/fuel mixture, acts as a catalyser and not as fuel. Once you accept this, the equation is solved much better. You help the oxidation process of the petrol based fuel.
I know that Alfa (Italian car manufacturer) is putting 2 spark plugs in their twin spark engines to achieve better burning, sorry oxidation. Most newer engines are trying to achieve this by different means. This adding 2H2O2 gas mixture might not improve the oxidation in these engines as much as in say my 1984 Audi Coupe.
If it sounds too simplified or not absolutely correct in English terms, please forgive me, it is not my mother's tongue, and you would not understand a word in Bulgarian anyway.
Once again - with this HHO generators, one cannot run on hydrogen as a fuel. This equation will never solve with positive balance. Even if one denies the H2 effect as catalyser, the O2 amount, added to the engine improves the oxidation. So one will have improved mpg readings. If it is 1%, 10% or 300% depends on the engine, on the amount of Oxygen and Hydrogen, added to the fuel/air mixture, and many other factors. But even at 1% it is a saving and better oxidation means less pollution. So, it is worth trying.
My personal experience shows over 25% savings with a small power drop at low rpm. My car used to run 100 km with about 8.5-9l and now it runs the same distance with a bit over 6.2-6.5l. That is even less than the manufacturer states - 7.5l each 100km on the highway. I added the generator without any modifications and fine tuning to a 2250cc Otto / Gasoline engine. My brother is going to test the same type of HHO generator for a trip from UK to Bulgaria (about 2000km) on a turbo charged Diesel engine and if he does experience a negative mpg reading, I'll post it here. If not, I might not even bother find this tread, as for the 4 days and 500km I own such a generator, I am happy with the results.
A word for everyone skeptical - I do not sell, produce, got payed, blessed or in any other way connected to nay side. I just wrote down my thoughts and my personal experience.
HTH!

JRP3 · Heavy Crude Joined: Oct 23, 2006 Posts: 394

That is a rational explanation of what may be occurring here, I have been trying to come to terms with how HHO as a catalyst might work to improve combustion beyond the energy required to produce it.
_________________
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Building the AMPhibian
http://amp-phibian.blogspot.com/

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ecirme · Coal Joined: Jun 05, 2008 Posts: 10

Amazing how much has truly been accomplished by the so called idiots or morons and I do not care to take the time to list some of the impossible things that are now so real and still hard to believe. Many of these were created buy drop outs or as many skeptics would call morons or idiots. It is here and happening now this very old very simple process of electrolyses of using a very low voltage to produce HHO from water which does in fact improve fuel efficiency. There are many legitimate companies producing products that are being incorporated into today automobiles. Here is another company that you believers or those that may be thinking about trying something, check this one out www.hydrorunner.com Try making your own with products from your local stores it is fun and it works and best of all big savings at the pump. The one thing that one should know pre 1997 is easiest and from my experience you should get 50% in mpg I know of some that are doing better than 100% . For those that just enjoy making fun of something they haven’t tried well what a pathetic bunch and where would the world be today if us morons actually believed these people and their supposedly cast in stone theories.
The Maine Hick

RMForbes · Tar Sands Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 55

gnm · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/HHO Gas

Tell you what RMForbes. I'll try it. On my crappy dodge pickup. Gets about 10-12mpg consistently.

The ONLY way this can be doing anything is as a catalyst to more completely burn the fuel or simply to trick the computer to mix you lean - suggesting that it is acting AS a fuel is retarded and violates basic scientific law. So we will see if this "catalyst effect" exceeds any losses.

So. Can you provide me with fairly detailed plans for one suitable for a 3.9 liter V8?
I suppose I will run a relay to the key switch and wire the actual unit right off the battery.

I remain skeptical....

-G
_________________
All right, you primitive screw-heads, listen up!

ecirme · Coal Joined: Jun 05, 2008 Posts: 10

Here you go GNM on me go to www. water4gas.com/1007.htm you will have access to what you need very cheap but very effective. Best thing is to down load the manual to Adobe Reader a PDF file. From there you can print what every page you may want, basically just for ease of access. Tell me what year your Dodge is, if it is pre 1997 you will not have to mess with fooling computer. I recommend to start do two jars then after you see results go to six. A friend has six in his 1984 Chevy V8 307. He started at 15mpg and now is at 29mpg. If you have questions e-mail me ecirme@yahoo.com (reference HHO)you being a skeptic or not would love to help you especial so you can see the real benefit.
The Maine Hick

JRP3 · Heavy Crude Joined: Oct 23, 2006 Posts: 394

MumboJumbo · Coal Joined: Jun 15, 2008 Posts: 1

I am glad to be writing on this forum for the first time.

Here are some facts on HHO/ Klein Gas. Energy like anything else in this world, doesnt come for free. HHO will only help to achieve a better combustion of gasoline. There you go...

1) The generation of HHO needs more energy than what you get out of burning it.

2) Only 30% to 40% of gasoline burns in your engine with the air that is sucked in. The energy on which your car runs is derived out of the breaking of C-H bonds in gasoline.

3) The energy released out of HHO formation breaks C-H bonds of the hydrocarbon, thereby generating smaller hydrocarbons.

4) There can be various intermediate products formed during combustion. These products will generally contain C, H and O. These products could vary in their stabilities, especially under the conditions of pressure and temperature in the combustion engine and could be generally represented as CxHyOz, where x, y, z can have values of 0,1,2,3…and so on.

5) The reaction intermediates combust again under the powerful burning of HHO and finally are released as Carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and water vapor.

6) The points 3), 4) and 5) delay the whole combustion process. So, emission per kilometers/miles is less. However, please note that the emission per gallon of gasoline will be the same.

7) Mileage increases due to the various factors:

a) Complete combustion of the hydrocarbon... (Check 2).. Wink

b) when HHO burns, the volume of the product which is water vapor decreases. You burn 2 litres of H2 and 1 liter of O2 to get 2 liters of H2O.

2 H2 + 1 02 ----> 2 H20

(2volumes+1volume) = 3 (2 volumes of gas)

This decrease in volume (starting with 3 units and ending with 2 units) gets stored as potential energy in the system (just like a compressed spring) since work is getting done on the system.

c) The work done by the combustion engine (mass of your car multiplied by the acceleration of your car multiplied by the distance travelled) can be expressed as the product of the internal pressure of the engine and the expansion of the gases inside the combustion chamber.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/work2.html

As there are various intermediates formed during the combustion cycle (meaning that there are more molecular species than what we started with), the pressure increases proportionately (Dalton's Law) as the combustion process proceeds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton's_law

This increase of pressure due to complete combustion of gasoline increases the efficiency, causing in a greater mileage.

Cool

There is nothing special about electrolysis generating HHO, or how fresh the HHO is. Dimerization reactions will depend on the electrical and mechanical properties of the electrolyte or other parameters such as the current, area of the electroldes etc., but they will be faster than the rate of diffusion of the gases which primarily takes place while the gases travel from the electrolysis chamber to the combustion chamber.

George Wisemen’s / Eagle Research’s claim that the gas has monoatomic hydrogen and oxygen are of statistical unimportance, since the ample opportunity for the gases to mingle and dimerize. Moreover, there are no proven records which suggest that monoatomic gases have be any significant roles in the combustion process.

Effectively, you are burning hydrogen and oxygen in the ratio of 2:1. Hydrogen can burn with oxygen at variable ratios (anywhere between 94% to 4%). Bust since there is more oxygen coming through the air intake, the resultant ratio is lesser than 2:1. This factor needs to be optimized, since more oxygen would enhance the formation of C-Ox, N-Ox and S-Ox, causing lesser efficient combustion, thus defeating the whole purpose.

9) The temperature needed to burn hydrogen and oxygen is 570 Celsius or 284 Fahrenheit. It is the flame of the gas that has to bear the burnt/brunt of the exothermicity of the reaction and reaches temperatures of 2000 – 2800 Celsius (a little less than oxy-acetylene). Bricks and Copper can melt at this temperature.
Certain claims of molecular sublimation of the gas and that it can assume various temperatures are nonsense.

Certain metals can react with the hydrogen and oxygen to produce hydride or oxide respectively. Such is the case with tumngsten which forms tungsten oxide that melts at a temperature close to 400 C.

would love to hear your responses.

MumboJumbo

JRP3 · Heavy Crude Joined: Oct 23, 2006 Posts: 394

RMForbes · Tar Sands Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 55

I think it's just a typo 284 c = 570 f

HHOMan · Coal Joined: Jun 20, 2008 Posts: 2

Hi,
I came across this site Searcypress.com and they have some very interesting videos on there showing how to make your own fuel cell. Their message boards are very active and it's all people asking questions about making this cell and the guy who made the video answers them daily it seems. What do you make of this?

Happyhydrogen · Coal Joined: Jun 22, 2008 Posts: 2