Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
RMForbes wrote:
Bob are you HHOKing too?
It didn't look like something you would post.
No, I am not HHOKing. I was agreeing with your post about sharing ideas, rather than selling them.
What I was saying is that I will be posting my findings, ideas, instructions, etc that I have learned from all of my experimentation on my website. I will NOT be charging for any of it. All of the information will be there for FREE!
Bob, or as my friends are now calling me, "Road Kill"
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
I thought so, Bob. Just a little confused by your wording.
The more I research the more I am convinced that the real commercial advances in moving away from petroleum based fuels will be done with steam reformer systems. I was reading an article on one of the Hydrogen fuel sites about a small company that was using a redesigned catalytic converter as the main component of their steam reforming system. They had added a additional chamber to recover waste heat energy from the exhaust to reform the liquid fuel gasoline into a more reactive gas fuel. The liquid is completely atomized prior to intake and the long hydrocarbon molecules are broken into smaller more reactive units by the reforming process. This usually happens during combustion. So by reforming the fuel prior to injecting into the intake ignition lag is greatly reduced and flame speeds are increased many times. Hydrogen is released during reforming from the liquid fuel and from any water or steam present to juice up the fuel. It was suggested that the reforming process would produce more free radicals to greatly increase the combustion efficiency.
Water becomes a good thing to be combined with the fuel because it is broken down to its hydrogen and oxygen components becoming additional fuel. Alternative fuels like hydrous ethanol (ethanol mixed with water only) can also be used instead of gasoline without changes to the equipment. In fact it works even better than gasoline alone. They have been able to produce much better fuel economy with many times less hydrocarbon and greenhouse gas emissions. They have produced several working prototypes. Of course, the EPA refuses to test them because modifying a catalytic converter violates federal law. Makes you wonder who's side the EPA is really on.
Don't get me wrong, I still am experimenting with electrolysis type systems for my personal use. I don't have the resources yet to produce a steam reformer for experimental testing. Plus, I don't want to discourage anyone from continuing their testing. Just wanted point out there is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
RMForbes wrote:
I thought so, Bob. Just a little confused by your wording.
The more I research the more I am convinced the way to skin the proverbial cat.
I agree, the more I look into it, the more I want to head in that direction. I 'happened' onto this method I am using, however, I can't use it on the Jeep engine. There is a company that I wrote to, http://www.preignitioncc.com/aht/index.htm They gave a quote in the thousands for their modified catalytic convertor. They are showing upwards of 125 mpg with their system.
thanks for the info.
PS: I hadn't heard anything from that truck driver's insurance company yet, so I sent them an email stating that if they ignore me, I would make Erin Brokovich look like Mary Poppins. The next morning, I received a letter stating that the claim was DENIED and that their insured was NOT responsible for the accident. I went ballistic. In the meantime, they received my email that I sent and they put another investigator on the case. I asked him to please read EVERYTHING on my site and to watch the videos that I sent him showing where some of the fragments of paint chips, tire fragments and mirror fragments were found along with a step by step narration of all of the events leading up to the collision, me being shoved down the highway sideways, the prayer I said, etc. He called and said, "Mr. Bloise, this never happens". "you have won me over". "you have proven your case". He questioned me, the driver that hit me and the witness very carefully. He concluded that all three of us were describing the same thing, except from a different viewpoint and perspective. The truck driver's insurance company is taking full responsibility for the claim. I guess, all is well, that ends well.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/HHO Gas
gnm wrote:
You are apparently an idiot.
Do you think that basic scientific principles are just bunko?
The system described violates basic scientific law. I doesn't have to be tested. It CAN'T WORK AS DESCRIBED!
THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN INTRODUCE SEVERAL INEFFICIENT CONVERSIONS INTO A SYSTEM AND IMPROVE EFFICIENCY.
Jeez people, go back to school........
-G
At one time or another, all old basic scientific principles were found to be just bunko. Usually by persons who persevered past the commonplace ideas, such as flat world. the steam boat that would never go. Once it went, it would never stop... If man were meant to fly, would have been born with wings. I am sure there are plenty to add to the list
Joined: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 1212 Location: western Wisconsin
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
The most recent copy of "FarmShow"magazine/paper has an article about HHO. The staff bought a unit, had it installed, and tried it out with no improvement. They printed some letters from others who tried various units, purchased and homebuilt, with varying results. Some people who got improved mpg admitted driving more carefully, so in the end it appeared that the only trial of the technology that was in any way scientifically done showed no improvement.
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
Sorry Jim,
I have to say yours as well as the Farm Show staffs research is inadequate. I have been operating my electrolysis based hydrogen injection system for just over six months now and my results have been consistent. The placebo effect that you are referring may be possible for a short period of time but driving habits return to normal once the unit becomes just another car part. If anything I have been driving my car harder because of the increase in power and acceleration makes it more fun to drive again. I still am getting much better fuel economy.
To run a valid test, you have to understand the mechanism that creates better fuel economy. When even a small amount of hydrogen is added to the combustion chamber of any internal combustion engine, ignition lag is reduced and fuel combustion speeds are increased. If the test engine has the initial timing set to 10 degrees before top dead center, ignition and combustion can be starting before the piston reaches the top of the compression stroke. The combustion will try to force the piston downward too soon (backwards), reducing the power output of the engine. Because of this reduction in ignition lag the initial timing needs to be retarded so the ignition and combustion of the fuel begins just after the beginning of the power stroke. Since hydrogen injection also increases combustion flame speeds dramatically, all the fuel is consumed before the end of the power stroke. The exhaust temperatures are lower and the exhaust is more oxygen rich than burning gasoline alone. If the ECU is not set to expect higher levels of oxygen in the exhaust, the system will interpret this as a lean condition and add more fuel in error. This can actually undo any gains that have been made.
Moving away from petroleum based fuels is too important for so many reasons to be swayed by misinformation or half hearted testing.
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
hi!!
i hope this site may help many people.....Has anyone tried other kit?
You don't have to try something to understand that it works.
I've seen facts on the news and all over the Internet, that running a car on water IS possible. Even that I haven't tried doing it, it doesn't mean that it's impossible.
this is not spam but i want many people to see other choice.Has anyone tried the kit? like water4gas,runyourcaronwater etc.
Is it really a scam? if you don't satisfy you can asked for refund..no more pain
You can truly get better mileage....http://carwaterguide.blogspot.com
Joined: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 1212 Location: western Wisconsin
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
RMForbes wrote:
I have to say yours as well as the Farm Show staffs research is inadequate. I have been operating my electrolysis based hydrogen injection system for just over six months now and my results have been consistent .
I am going to assume that you will contact Farm Show and arrange to have them test your vehicle, right?
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
Jim,
Of course they are welcome to test my car. As long as they don't do a half-hearted job like the did on the last one. How about you Bob, can they test your Porsche?
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
Carwaterguide,
Sorry, not impressed with your blogspot. I'm not a big fan the Water4Gas type sites. They offer very poor dangerous designs; using glass to produce an explosive gas is insane. All it will take is some idiot to get killed or maimed by one of these units and the government will have a good excuse to shut us all down. If you are truly interested in the leading edge of this technology go to PanaceaUniversity.org. You may not be very interested because everything we do is open source, so you can't commercialize it.
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
RMForbes wrote:
Jim,
Of course they are welcome to test my car. As long as they don't do a half-hearted job like the did on the last one. How about you Bob, can they test your Porsche?
You bet they can test it. I will make them a deal. When it comes back from the body shop, I will have them come out and test it. We will test it WITHOUT the HHO and measure the mileage. It will be about 30 -35 mpg. Then we will test it WITH the HHO system. After I reset the carbs and the timing, we will check the mileage. Since the non-believers and those that are convinced that the scientific facts shows that it can't be done, they should have no problem putting their money where their mouth is. Since they say it will REDUCE the mileage, then for every mpg BELOW what we get without the HHO, I will pay them $1000. BUT, for every mpg OVER what we get without the HHO, then I get $100 per mile per gallon over. Fair enough, non-believers? How about it, 10 to 1 odds in YOUR favor, after all, you have the scientific facts behind you. All I have is a SCAM, right? By the way, so there isn't any confusion here, I don't SELL my ideas or products. I will assist ANYONE that has the desire to learn what it is all about.
I know the scientific facts speak loudly, but you know what they say, "money talks and the BS walks". By the way, if you LEARN the scientific facts, then you will clearly see why it works.
I will let you know when the body shop is done repairing what the trucker did to it. Be sure to bring lots and lots of nice crispy hundred dollar bills.
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
[quote="bbloise"]
RMForbes wrote:
Jim,
Of course they are welcome to test my car. ........snip.......snip.......snip.........one repairing what the trucker did to it. Be sure to bring lots and lots of nice crispy hundred dollar bills.
Bob
It looks like the "fuel reforming" is the way to go. In an earlier post, I gave the address to the PICC system. The PICC system uses the HHO system and fuel reforming through a modified catalytic convertor. I have heard that they are excited right now because Ford Motors have been testing their system and their top engineer is very impressed. They are now signing on to start converting some 60 million vehicles to run the system. that should prove to be very interesting. I hope they don't get run over by a Mack truck for their efforts.
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: my torch work great
ChumpusRex wrote:
This is a scam.
Oxy-hydrogen torches do exist, and electrolytic hydrogen generators to produce gas for these torches have been available for years.
The problem is that oxy-hydrogen torches are rubbish, when compared to oxy-acetylene, because the flame is a lower temperature and has a lower density. Cutting or welding steel or other modern alloys is very difficult, and very slow, because of the high temperatures required.
Scamsters have promoted hydrogen torches for a long time, often claiming obvious BS like 'Brown's gas', 'Klien gas' or a 'stabilised monatomic hydrogen oxygen mixture'. Moreover they were often willing to demonstrate cutting and welding - usually with low temperature metals like lead, or tin. Convincing to dumb investors, but a joke to engineers and metal workers.
Hydrogen torches are most commonly used for fine heating and soldering where precision and controllability are more important than raw power e.g. by jewelers. As you might imagine, for a small, occasionally used device, an electrolytic gas source is ideal.
Try a high power hho torch yourself. If you havent then you really dont know. with enough electricity about 3500 watts you can produce enough hho gas that will make acetylene and oqygen look bad. I have experimented with this gas and found it is very hot. melts glass, steel, takes a lot but will melt tungsten carbide in small pieces. a road work crew uses one to cut through concrete. check out my videos on my webpage http://www.h2extreme.com
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/Brown's/HHO Gas
[quote="bbloise"]
bbloise wrote:
RMForbes wrote:
Jim,
Of course they are welcome to test my car. ........snip.......snip.......snip.........one repairing what the trucker did to it. Be sure to bring lots and lots of nice crispy hundred dollar bills.
Bob
It looks like the "fuel reforming" is the way to go. In an earlier post, I gave the address to the PICC system. The PICC system uses the HHO system and fuel reforming through a modified catalytic convertor. I have heard that they are excited right now because Ford Motors have been testing their system and their top engineer is very impressed. They are now signing on to start converting some 60 million vehicles to run the system. that should prove to be very interesting. I hope they don't get run over by a Mack truck for their efforts.
Bob
Yeah, I got that email too. Looks like we are finally turning some heads. Did I share the information about ethanol and hydrogen enrichment that was posted on the Green Fuels website? If not, here's an excerpt;
”The main problem with ethanol is that the majority of engines on the road today are not designed for it. The exception is the Saab 9-5 Biopower engine, which IS optimized for ethanol. It outperforms gasoline, getting 20% more power, 16% greater torque, and 10% better mileage. The Lotus Exige 265E “Flexi” gets 45 more horse power on E85 than it gets on gasoline. Within the next two years, Suzuki, Ford, GM and numerous other car makers will introduce engines which exploit the advantages of ethanol, for its high octane and compatibility with water. Our system of blending 15% gasoline into ethanol is not necessary. Ethanol can be denatured without using gasoline. That was how politicians created an incentive for oil companies to distribute ethanol, by giving them a 51 cent per gallon tax credit to blend it with gasoline. Problem is, ethanol performs better when it’s mixed with water rather than gasoline. This is called hydrous ethanol. Nothing new. In the 1920's, the model A Ford cars and trucks ran on 165 proof ethanol, 17.5% water and 82.5% ethanol. Recently, a Pratt Community College engine testing team lead by instructor Greg Bacon, mixed 20% water with pure ethanol, and efficiency in the combustion chamber doubled. When the ethanol explodes, the water instantly turns into additional power in the form of steam and also provides hydrogen and oxygen inside the cylinder. Next year, Ford is introducing the EcoBoost engine, which may also have advanced ethanol technology that doubles efficiency. Brazil has been using 4% hydrous ethanol for years. They laughed at us when we started mixing ethanol with gasoline. Phil Ratte, Mechanical Engineer, BME University of Minnesota said: “From 1981 to 1989, I worked with Herb Hansen, who had been an engineer on a WW II submarine, and a former captain of a nuclear submarine. We developed two prototype cars, a Ford Pinto Station Wagon and a Mitsubishi Sedan, that ran as well on 65 proof ethanol (2/3 water and 1/3 ethanol) as they did on unleaded regular gas.” What is the one thing that the big oil companies fear the most? Water. The State of Louisiana now has an experimental hydrous ethanol program that may also be replicated in other states. Dongfeng, a major Chinese auto maker is introducing a car this year, with a slightly modified fuel system, that runs on 65% ethanol and 35% water. They claim hydrogen is formed. Toyota also has a similar hydrous ethanol prototype that produces on board hydrogen. The BTU argument that ethanol is inferior to diesel and gasoline is not valid. Since ethanol is water soluble and high octane, with advanced engine technology, it can outperform gasoline 2 to 1 or better. Major automakers are scheduled to produce smaller, lighter, high compression, turbocharged ethanol optimized engines that are far more efficient than current gasoline and diesel engines. And the fuel will be cheaper. If you prefer an ethanol powered fuel cell, the Swift Direct Proton Fuel Cell developed by Purdue University’s Research Park in West Lafayette, Indiana is about $2,000, only 1/10 the price of a hydrogen fuel cell. Maybe that’s why Toyota is building ethanol plants in Brazil, and GM is investing in ethanol development in the U. S…They must know something we don’t know about ethanol. “
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