For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Would a Claymore mine be any good against a tank? I thought they were primarily anti-personnel weapons.
And because military equipment's kind of my thing, I'm gonna be picky and point out that that picture's a Leopard 2 MBT; the Leopard 1 had curved forward armor.
I highly doubt it unless the tank was damned near on top of the Claymore. But you could make armor peircing claymore like devices which should do the trick.
Joined: Aug 14, 2004 Posts: 2063 Location: San Diego, Ca.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:05 pm Post subject:
I am with SpecOps %110. While attempting to predict what humans will do in "end of the world" mode, prepare for the worst. This means the ability to provide an effective self-defense. Modern firearms are the best forms of weapon technology and they evolved over thousands of years. I want the best means of personal protection available. Nothing is going save you (well almost) if a B1 bomber drops 20k pounds of high explosives or a tank chases you down.
What is most likely to happen: Armed roving bandits with firearms who have little training and discipline. They will want to kill you, rape your women and take your stuff. Just look at the history of mankind. Once the crash hits, there won't be (effective) law enforcement & prisoners will be set free.
Why would anyone want to limit themselves? If someone's personality won't let them kill another human being in self-defense, then live and travel with someone who can. _________________ "Peak oil isn't more than an interesting industry factoid and doesn't have anything to do with the hysterics speculated on ad nauseum around here!" ReserveGrowthRulz
I am with SpecOps %110. While attempting to predict what humans will do in "end of the world" mode, prepare for the worst. This means the ability to provide an effective self-defense. Modern firearms are the best forms of weapon technology and they evolved over thousands of years.
Fort me that is not an option. I could acquire a gun by becoming a member of a shooting range, but then I would be forced to keep my gun stored in the vault at the shooting range.
Alternatively I could try to get a gun in the criminal circuit (which is nearly impossible here and will cost you a lot of money) and risk serious jail time and a certain end to my career.
Quote:
What is most likely to happen: Armed roving bandits with firearms who have little training and discipline.
I do understand that that's a concern in the US. But as I tried to explain there are not enough guns in circulation to pose a real threat to my safety.
I am with SpecOps %110. While attempting to predict what humans will do in "end of the world" mode, prepare for the worst. This means the ability to provide an effective self-defense. Modern firearms are the best forms of weapon technology and they evolved over thousands of years.
Fort me that is not an option. I could acquire a gun by becoming a member of a shooting range, but then I would be forced to keep my gun stored in the vault at the shooting range.
Alternatively I could try to get a gun in the criminal circuit (which is nearly impossible here and will cost you a lot of money) and risk serious jail time and a certain end to my career.
Quote:
What is most likely to happen: Armed roving bandits with firearms who have little training and discipline.
I do understand that that's a concern in the US. But as I tried to explain there are not enough guns in circulation to pose a real threat to my safety.
What about bows or crossbows or swords and knives?
It goes beyond personal protection, you can use these items to hunt as well. Hell, a knife would almost be a necesity. Ever try cleaning an animal without one?
What about bows or crossbows or swords and knives?
It goes beyond personal protection, you can use these items to hunt as well. Hell, a knife would almost be a necesity. Ever try cleaning an animal without one?
I have a bat in my house to fend of burglars. It used to belong to my grandfather and it is kind of our family weapon (It didn't do much against the German invasion though).
Knives (blade longer than 8 cm, except cooking knifes) swords and everything which can consider physical harm are considered as weapons and are subjected to strict regulations.
I'm a diver so I posses a diving knife which is about the same as a hunting knife. I am allowed to keep it in my house. But I am only allowed to carry it from my house to the diving site. Even then I'm obliged to carry it in such a way that I (or others) cannot easily reach it.
Crossbows and bows are illegal unless you are an active member of a shooting club and have a permit.
However the control on these kind of weapons is not as strict as on firearms, so you'll probably get away with it.
Joined: Aug 14, 2004 Posts: 2063 Location: San Diego, Ca.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:
Quote:
I do understand that that's a concern in the US. But as I tried to explain there are not enough guns in circulation to pose a real threat to my safety.
Do you think lines drawn on a map are going to save you? Does anybody know how many copies of AK47 pattern weapons are in circulation alone? I know it's in the multi-millions. Once the SHTF guns are going to be a premium, especially in Europe.
Adapt and overcome...or move.[/quote] _________________ "Peak oil isn't more than an interesting industry factoid and doesn't have anything to do with the hysterics speculated on ad nauseum around here!" ReserveGrowthRulz
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 1190 Location: Zoorope
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:28 pm Post subject:
There are so few guns in circulation here, that I can foresee only big bosses and their gangs (read: mafia) will own firearms. And big bosses won't give a blink of my stupid zucchini garden. A good old dog will be enough. _________________ **no english mothertongue**
--------
Objects in the rear view mirror
are closer than they appear.
Do you think lines drawn on a map are going to save you? Does anybody know how many copies of AK47 pattern weapons are in circulation alone? I know it's in the multi-millions. Once the SHTF guns are going to be a premium, especially in Europe
.
I've been giving that some thought. As I explained the government is very strict on weapons. As long as the government is in control and the police is doing their work we will see no strong inflow of weapons.
So what you're suggesting is that the governing structure and the judicial system collapses completely. I find it hard to believe that this will happen within my lifetime.
Our society has been developed over the past 2000 years, it has survived numerous wars, hungers etc. Even the plague which was significantly worse than the first stages of peakoil are ever going to be, was not able to shake the foundations of our society.
In the long run it would be possible, but not in the next 50 years.
Joined: Aug 14, 2004 Posts: 2063 Location: San Diego, Ca.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:24 pm Post subject:
Okay Smiley, you are now on the right track.
Quote:
Our society has been developed over the past 2000 years, it has survived numerous wars, hungers etc. Even the plague which was significantly worse than the first stages of peakoil are ever going to be, was not able to shake the foundations of our society.
Yes Society will survive in some form. The question at hand is will YOU survive! Guns and weapons were a part of you history and unfortunately, they will be part of your future. 6 billion people are not going to sit around and starve to death. I anticipate wars and lawlessness. Everything is relatively peaceful for now. I fear that will change when the energy runs low. _________________ "Peak oil isn't more than an interesting industry factoid and doesn't have anything to do with the hysterics speculated on ad nauseum around here!" ReserveGrowthRulz
Joined: Aug 14, 2004 Posts: 2063 Location: San Diego, Ca.
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:29 pm Post subject:
Quote:
There are so few guns in circulation here, that I can foresee only big bosses and their gangs (read: mafia) will own firearms. And big bosses won't give a blink of my stupid zucchini garden. A good old dog will be enough.
What about when 5 big mean nasty men come over and take your stuff? Maybe they have knives or improvised weapons. You see what I mean, endless scenarios where weapons will be needed.
I rest my case. I will let someone else take up the pro-gun in a SHTF world argument.[/quote] _________________ "Peak oil isn't more than an interesting industry factoid and doesn't have anything to do with the hysterics speculated on ad nauseum around here!" ReserveGrowthRulz
The original post was less concerned with tanks and automatic weapons than with burglars of the more common variety and how to prevent theft.
Lets get back on track; how do you protect your stuff
Sorry to mess up your tread
It is easy to deter burglars. Burglars pick out the most lucrative and easy targets. Make sure your house isn't one.
1) Do not put valuables in plain sight. Make sure your entrance looks crappy (sometimes burglars come to your door first posing as a charity organization or something like that in order to see if you have an alarm system and valuables).
2) Make them work. The most dangerous part of a break-in is the entry. An opportunistic thieve will stop his attempt when it will take him more than 5 minutes to enter the house. So make sure all your doors and windows are well protected (on all floors including the roof windows).
3) Hedges and trees in your garden provide you privacy, but realize that they do the same for a burglar.
4) The biggest enemies of burglars are light and noise. Make sure you can provide them with both. You can think of an electronic alarm system in your house. Better are motion detectors in your garden coupled with strong lamps and a siren, because they stop the burglar before he actually attempts anything.
Then there are the organic alarm systems, namely the dog and the goose. Burglars are usually more afraid of dogs than of guns and with reason. You can't reason with a dog.
Goose have the additional advantage of providing eggs. They are a very good alarm system (Their CV includes saving ancient Rome).
I guess you can take protection as far as you want. My standard is: to make your house a tougher target than that of the neighbors.
If you are successful in that you'll never need a weapon to chase a burglar from your home.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6374 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:14 am Post subject:
I took the liberty of splitting off the "rules" portion, as we haven't talked much about the "camo" or "passive" aspect of defense; sorry if I stepped on any toes. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
There are so few guns in circulation here, that I can foresee only big bosses and their gangs (read: mafia) will own firearms. And big bosses won't give a blink of my stupid zucchini garden. A good old dog will be enough.
See, thats a matter of where you live. In my family, I cant name one person who has less then 4 guns, except a rare few. I went back home on vacation with a .357 in the truck. Why? because, even today theres people who seek to take advantage of you. I showed my grandfather when I got to his place as it was a new purchase for me.
Guess what? "Nice, got one in my truck". He brings out a .44 magnum. We were talkin, about 5 minutes later one of his friends pulls up. We talk guns for a minute, he steps over to hsi truck, out comes another .44
These arent suburban militai crazy's. Both these guys are 60-ish years old. Old farmers. But, they look out for themselves and family.
Moving on from that though, in a true Collapse scenario the best tactic is adopt the LRRP mindset (Long Range Recon Patrol). Avoid avoid avoid. Only engage those targets you ABSOLUTELY MUST.
Its easy to deter a simpleminded theif. A dog or two, rosebushes, motion lights etc. I'm not saying go buy a AR15 with 10 30 round mags (Although I am, but I'm a shooter). I'm saying put some thought into a good practical gun or 2. Something thats very multipurpose. A good shotgun and hunting rifle is all a man should need. I'd add a pistol to the mix, but 3 guns would be more then plenty. A good 9mm pistol for portability, a good shotgun for home defense and bird hunting and a good deer rifle which you can also use for defense. You can get a 9mm cheap (200 bucks if you shop around, 400 for a spiffy one), a shotgun runs from 150 at Wal Mart to 700-1000 for a fancy one, a good deer rifle would be 250 to 1000. Dont be Rambo by any means, but dont leave your ass hangin in the wind if 2 slightly more determined hungy theifs show up and ARENT scared off by a dog.
Trust me, the absolute worst sound a theif can hear in the dark is the racking of a shotgun. That WILL send them running!!
Its about adopting a level headed and realistic defensive mindset. You dont need semi automatic military cloned rifles, a bunker of ammunition and homemade grenades. But planning with a defensive mindset can do wonders. Instead of putting the beds all in a row beside the house, spread them out a touch. It keeps ramming attacks at bay, and can make your house look better if you spread them out just right. Put a extra 10 minutes of thought into not only installing, but securing your solar panels and equipment. A simple motion detector mounted on a building next to them which covers them should be enough in all reality. Lock your animals in for the night. Thats good practice, collapse or now. Dont want coyotes eating your chickens any more then a hungry vagabond stealing them.
Please, while its fun to venture off course and have pipe dreams of guns and bunkers and overlaying fields of fire and whatnot, the point of the post isnt about that. Its about making sure that while your building sheds and planning raised beds you take an additional minute or so to stop and think if it could be in a better place, or if you could do something as simple as putting a good lock on the door to make it more secure.
Thats my advice, take 5 minutes to ask "What if....." and think about it.
Now, for myself? Oh baby, its Rambo time. If *I* showed up in a bad mood, you better have overlaying fields of fire, homemade grenades and a good Kevlar vest. Cause I'm a crazy mofo....
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