Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Practical Steps to Take
KingM wrote:
How many of you have taken practical steps to deal with a possible collapse and what are they? I have just started buying some gold and plan to buy about $2,000 a year until the crisis passes or the system falls apart, whenever that may be. I'm hoping to buy some food supplies to deal with worst-case scenarios, and am wondering if I should get a gun and learn how to use it.
As background, since this is my first post, I live in a rural area of Northern New England on roughly 5 acres of land. If we suffer a catastrophic collapse, this is a pretty good place to be; there is still a lot of agriculture and our population is only slightly higher than what it was in 1850, when we were able to support ourselves with animal-power agriculture. We have a close-knit, small community and I think we've got a better than average chance of holding together rather than eating each other, if it comes to that.
Hey KingM -
I'd be happy to offer you some advice on preparing for collapse.
First, I'd say you do seem to live in a good situation, and have some good preparation ideas, however I believe you have them in reverse order.
First, if you have gold, and the collapse happens, can you eat the gold? No.
If you have gold, and someone comes to rob the gold, can you defend it? No.
Ok ok, so lets get something to eat first. Oh, but if you have food, and someone comes to steal your food, can you defend it? No.
Advice: Get a gun first. No, wait - get 3 guns, a rifle, a shotgun, and a handgun. Get 1,000 rounds of ammo for each. Get this set for every person who lives under your roof. Make sure everyone knows how to use their 3 guns effectively, and are practiced in their use. Ok now we have defense taken care of. You can defend Junior, Junior can defend you, and you both can defend the rest of your preparations.
2nd Advice: Lay in a supply of short term food, enough to feed everyone under your roof (and any expected "partycrashers") for 2 months. This is "emergency food" that is similar to that which you eat everyday, but which can be quickly prepared with a minimum of time and energy. This could consist of canned goods, dehydrated foods (Stovetop Stuffing, Instant Mashed Potatoes, MinuteRice) and powdered drinks - things that don't require lengthy cooking, refrigeration nor refrigerated ingredients. Make sure it is stuff that the wife & kids will eat without complaint. If chaos catches you with your pants down, before you can complete the rest of your preparations, this stash will buy you time to put some long-term strategies in place. It will also get you thru short term disasters such as being snowed in, power outages, short-term market disruptions, etc.
3rd Advice: Lay in a supply of long-term food. This will typically be a long-storage life, low-cost subsistence food like whole-kernel wheat, whole-kernel corn, dried beans etc. Check around and find recommendations for types amounts and storage for each. 100 pounds of wheat, 100 pounds of beans, and 50 pounds of corn, per year, per person, sounds like a good start. Don't forget equipment you will need to make this food edible and palatable, such as a wheat grinder, a pressure cooker and spices (salt, sugar, pepper etc). I think it's advisable to have at least a 2 years supply of this on hand, and I'd prefer to have 5 years put by. This is what you'll be eating while waiting for your crops to mature.
4th Advice: If you don't already have it, seed for crops that are known to do well in your area and soil, and equipment for working the soil and harvesting the crops. If you don't already know farming/gardening, learn. Get books. Do as much as you can on an "organic only" basis. Having said that, lay in a supply of fertilizer and pesticide to be used in an emergency. Learn sustainable skills - home canning, wood cutting, livestock & game butchering.
5th Advice: Precious metal for money. Some in gold, some in silver. Make sure you have small denominations. Lots of people believe that pre 1964 coins, which are 90% silver, will be good as valid currency in case of a dollar collapse. This has many advantages - small denominations, the fact that it is actually "legal tender" and never worth less than face value, currently worth 6x face value as silver, and instantly recognizable by all. Experts are recommneding against investing in coins or bullion that do not have the purity stamped on the coin such as ".999 Silver" because otherwise, people will argue over what it's worth. You can use your gold and silver money to trade for things you don't have, such as a horse, or medical care, or repairs to equipment if the person offering such goods or services doesn't want or need something else you have in abundance.
If you want additional info, I can provide links to some good places online where you can find detailed expert advice on the above. But that's the short & sweet version. Hope that helps.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6375 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Practical Steps to Take
I’m sure I have said it in the past; but if you flash a few twenties in someone’s face you are bound to get more attention than pulling out an old quarter worth 10x the papers’ value.
But then again I don’t write for a gold trader so I can’t weave a very good tale. Use yourself as an example and make up a little play in your head; do you take the FRNs or a quarter?
And Bruss I don't know the difference between good silver and bad - let alone the values. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6150 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Practical Steps to Take
Ludi wrote:
Heineken wrote:
In the meantime we must still play the basic game--
Pfttt! I say, get out of "the basic game!"
Ha, ha! Hard for me to disagree with that, Ludi. I've gotten out of the basic game more than most, but when in Rome it is still advisable to do as the Romans do---at least as far as appearances go. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6150 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Practical Steps to Take
bruss01: Good list, but of course it's just a start, and quite superficial despite all the apparent detail.
I've done a lot of thinking about post-PO survival issues, and some planning for it, but the more I delve into them the more I realize how hopeless it all is. At best, well-prepared souls can expect to extend their lives by about five years (the maximum storage life of most of the longer-lived foods), assuming they don't get crushed by the marauding hordes.
As a society, we just don't have the skills of our forbears, and we aren't going to relearn them without a huge dieoff first.
Guns eventually rust, especially when you can't access the supplies necessary to keep them oiled and cleaned (yes, even those will run out eventually). Even those thousands of rounds of ammo will deteriorate to the point where they won't be usable.
There will be disease and broken legs and infections and probably no one to treat them competently. And even if there is someone available to treat them, that person will probably lack the drugs and medical supplies necessary.
Seeds also don't keep for very long---a few years, perhaps, and then they are no longer viable. Very few of us have the ability to save and successfully store seeds. It's a real science all its own. And even when you have great seeds fresh from the farm store, getting them to the point where they bear food is no simple matter.
Even though I think that post-collapse survival prospects are in practicality quite grim, I do believe in going through the motions, and that's what I'm doing. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Mar 24, 2005 Posts: 132 Location: Colorado
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: Practical Steps to Take
Pops wrote:
Actually I think the point is it may not matter how much gold you have buried in the backyard, it doesn’t mean a whit if no one wants to trade it for their land, tools or seed – or even a chicken.
And what is a person who played the game and bought gold, going to do with land, tools and seed anyway? He will be at the mercy of those who knew what to do with the seed.
I am not one who thinks everything is going to hell in a hand basket overnight either. But I’m just more comfortable trying to make do myself than betting my gold will make do for me should seeds, plows and chickens be worth more than gold.
The key to buying and selling any commodity is knowing when to buy and when to sell. Buying gold to hold forever isn't really too practical. Also, as I mentioned above, I don't think hording gold, then sitting on the couch getting fat and watching TV is the answer either.
Don't assume all gold bugs "play the game" either. I've quit corporate America after one year of their crap many years ago. My wife and I aim for a simplified life and we are seeking financial independence in the next 5 years or so. Forget about the Joneses, they can go in debt so deep they'll never crawl out of it for all I care. I feel no compulsion to keep with anything in their life.
See, it's like this, if you are saving to buy land, food, chickens, shovels, etc and don't want to put it on plastic or go into debt, then you have to save money somehow. I am betting that those with gold and silver will fare much better at acquiring the items they need in the foreseeable future for survival than those who don't have any or have dollar-base savings accounts, bonds, etc..
Hey, if you already have the land, the bunker, the guns, the food, a warehouse full of hand tools, etc or live in a community that will pull together and make it through, more power to you. While I'm quite resourceful and faster on my feet than most, I'm not there yet. So I'll play this out as it comes and so far I see gold and silver as being a better place to hoard money value right now at this point in time for purchasing such items in the future. Of course that may change tomorrow and we may have to barter for a chicken with a shovel, but I really doubt it.
Just like everything, you have to pay attention if you want to stay ahead. _________________ "One thing more dangerous than getting between a grizzly sow and her cub is getting between a businessman and a dollar bill." -Ed Abbey
Isn't it strange that the same people who laugh at gypsy fortune tellers take economists seriously?
My work interests were also in the field and I have been in the British Army as a paratrooper, in the Police and Prison services of two Australian states and now work as a Security Officer for an International Organisation. I managed to get a Diploma in Risk, Crisis and Disaster Management along the way.
As we can see Y2K didn't cause civilisation to end. However it was still worth preparing for. By preparing for one major castatrophe you are often preparing for many. Just as the firewarden system and evacuation plan for a building is often the basis of planning for bomb threats and other emergencies. You don't want a fire or a bomb to blow your building up but the consequences if it happens are so great you need to prepare. I see Peak Oil in the same way.
Have a plan for when things go bad. But also have a plan for things going good. You could call it a "no regrets" strategy.
First think about what might happen. To start your preparations get smoke detectors and a fire extinguisher and a first aid kit (plus the training on how to use it. The Red Cross is a good place to get this in most countries.
Then do the 72 hour kit as soon as possible. Then build up gradually to 14 days or a year. Do these as soon as possible. This will do two things. Get you committed and prevent you from feeling helpless. The idea of having to get 1 years supply of food is pretty shocking for most people.
Think seriously about joining your local civil defence organisation, bushfire brigade, voluntary EMT or reseve law enforcement group if your community has one. You are more likely to meet like minded people and if it hits the fan you will be protected by law enforcement and the military instead of working by yourself. You need to connect to the community especially if you are relocating. Do you want to be known as the person who bought a big house just before the Peak or as the person who helped rescue my town in a fire or other calamity. If things get bad you want to be seen as an asset not an outsider.
Also you may get trained for free in useful skills. For example when I was with the State Emergency Service in New South Wales, Australia I got trained in first aid, disaster rescue, driving 4 wheel drives and safe chainsaw use.
And get skills. Skills are always useful and portable. Even if you are robbed of everything you may still survive if you have good skills.
Plan for the Worst and hope for the Best. No regrets. Besides learning first aid, shooting, defensive tactics, how to cook, etc can be fun!
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