How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:18 am Post subject: I just can't cope
I first learnt about Peak Oil about two years ago and I think I still haven't got beyond the shock and despair stage. My study, work and social lives have all suffered from neglect while I spent the better part of my days surfing the net to glean every bit of bad news there is to be had. (in the name of 'keeping up to date')
And yet I still 'can't totally believe' that modern civilization is going to be extinguished like this. (everybody around me 'totally can't believe' that, so that affects my judgment somewhat) Ever since I was a kid I have dreamt of going up to space in a great migration of civilization towards the final frontier. Now it looks like we might crash down from low earth orbit back down to the ground and from there, down into that hot place below.
I can't find the heart to prepare for survival in China (because I am loathe to learn to speak Putonghua) nor in Australia. (because my family won't follow me) (I am a Hong Konger who had spent 3 years in Australia with my family.)
I was diagnosed with some combination of depression and anxiety in 2000. Now it seems that despite medications the worst bits of these diseases are coming out--this endless cycle of worry, doom and gloom and total inability to take action. If Peak Oil comes I'll be just as unprepared as the average moron who never knew of the issue until the very end, and with worse than average ability to withstand the hardships; if Peak Oil doesn't come I'll be way behind my peers in my career progress. At this rate my life seems destined to be a failure either way!
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:42 am Post subject: Re: I just can't cope
First off, modern civilization is not going to be extinguished over this. We probably will have to set our standards of living lower, and learn more about self sustaining, including new ways of using energy. Our knowledge and technology will not just vanish because of fossil fuel declining. It's quite possible, in the mid-to-long term, we'll develop more advanced technology which will help us cope with energy issues. PO does not signifie the very end of human species either, we'll still be here a looong time from now. This is a gradual transition, so many of us should and will be able to adapt to new situations and circumstances.
Always been one of the things we are very good at, adapting to change.
And you will be more prepared than the average moron, you understand the seriousness of this, and with 2 yrs. of self investigation on the web, your knowledge and comprehension should be a major advantage. I'm sure in those 2 years, you've come across very much and very different ideas to sustain - at least - yourself and your family.
Get a grip man. _________________ Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 3249 Location: One more question...
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:55 am Post subject: Re: I just can't cope
Mac you sure think very highly of your posts if you think they can cure depression.
JoeBlogg you have set up a no win situation for yourself. Hong Kong is no good, you don't want to be in China mainland, and you don't want to be in Australia. Pick a place you would like to be and work towards getting there. _________________ "Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Robert A. Heinlein
Joined: Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 413 Location: Massachusetts
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:02 am Post subject: Re: I just can't cope
Quote:
Learn to laugh at Doomers.
They will never laugh at themselves.
First of all, don't laugh at us. Optimists are the funny ones. I've heard more convincing arguments from Doomers than from any Optimist. I think we deserve to be taken a little more seriously than to just be laughed at.
Secondly, doomers do laugh at themselves. At least I do. There's humor in defeatism, negativity and constant damning, if you look for it. Just because its harder to find, doesn't mean it isn't there. I laugh at myself all the time. _________________ Vision without action is a dream, action without vision is a nightmare.
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:27 am Post subject: Re: I just can't cope
Macsporan wrote:
Learn to laugh at Doomers.
That's great advice! It gives us, the hardcore doomers, more time to acquire the things we want at a reasonable price. Of course, it does sacrifice those who heed your suggestion...but I suppose this can all be viewed as a sort of natural selection, can't it?
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6019 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:02 am Post subject: Re: I just can't cope
A similar cast of characters---optimists, pessimists, people "living well," the ignorant, the greedy, the brave, the despairing---was present on the Titanic almost to the moment it slipped beneath the waves. These are the universal human responses to highly unpleasant facts.
"Rational optimist" is to me a contradiction in terms, because it is an admission of bias, and there is nothing rational about bias. The rational person attempts to be free of bias, or at least not to embrace it.
In the end our individual opinions won't matter. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:55 am Post subject: Re: I just can't cope
Get back to helping this young man named Joe, OK?
My advice is to live life enjoyably, yet sustainably. Take up bicycle riding into the countryside. Take transit into the city and walk around, visiting the many cultural attractions. Spend time at musuems and other institutions to learn about human history and all the ups and downs it has had over its thousands of years, and discover how some civilizations survived and why others didn't. You'll find others who will share your interests, but always maintain a bright positive attitude through a desire to learn. Those that do, will emerge as better human beings in a post-peak oil world, or for that matter at the end of each day. Just take it one day at a time, because it seems you're contemplating all that lays ahead in the future, and appears to be overwhelming you. Anytime you feel yourself getting depressed, do something nice for yourself, like that bicycle ride, or a walk in a park to enjoy the sights and sounds of things that won't go away.
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:49 am Post subject: Re: I just can't cope
I guess I just don't know how to position myself for the future. Given that PO is going to happen, I don't know whether the future will be a rat race for fewer and fewer jobs in the framework of something resembling to current world economy, or if the three horsemen of the apocalyse will just come charging in. In the former case I guess I should prepare myself to jostle for a good job position; in the latter case I should look more closely at survival techniques.
If I'm indecisive I ought to be preparing for both situations but I'm more like preparing for neither...
Do you know the kind of people that look upon Peak Oil as some kind of Apocalyse and are just living their lives like zombies, doing nothing, waiting for their salvation? I'll fit right in with them now!
Somebody mentioned that in 2 years of research I ought to have learnt a few things about post-PO survival. Well, not really--I spent all my time just reading about the bad news. I don't really feel interested in preparing myself for the crap that will happen if all these bad news are true.
Why do I feel downright HAPPY these days when I read another PO-related piece of bad news? Because it proves that I'm right and the people around me are wrong? Maybe I'm just glad that I'll be spared the chore of killing myself! If I'm so happy to die why don't I go now??
(don't worry, I'm still here... I've trained myself such that even if I can't find a reason to live, I have to find a compelling immediate reason to die as a reason for suicide... like, starvation, loss of housing or some such serious deterioration of living condition, with no relief in sight)
What I need is something that can give me a good kick so I can get off my ass and start DOING something! I have a plan...
Get in touch with the Hong Kong PO clan
If there is none, find an appropriate place to start one (e.g. a Greenpeace branch meeting, an appropriate society in a university...)
Once I get a bunch of like-minded people together that are inclined to actually DO something about the coming crisis, they can help me get back into gear to do stuff.
But it's taking so long for me to get started!!
Also need to find a job in the meantime and that is going at a snail's pace, like maybe half a job application per day.
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:26 am Post subject: Re: I just can't cope
Well, if you can't yet find Hong Kong buddies at short notice, how about us folks over here from Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia? We're in the same timezone to boot.
We could compare notes or something. Hong Kong is "vertical suburbia" too, right? As urban dwellers, the coming challenges, shrug, could be similar.
What are your plans? Do you currently have any relatives over in China, or Australia? _________________ Live quotes - crude oil, gold and currencies
http://www.post1.net/lowem/page/livequotes
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6019 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: I just can't cope
Peepers wrote:
Get back to helping this young man named Joe, OK?
My advice is to live life enjoyably, yet sustainably. Take up bicycle riding into the countryside. Take transit into the city and walk around, visiting the many cultural attractions. Spend time at musuems and other institutions to learn about human history and all the ups and downs it has had over its thousands of years, and discover how some civilizations survived and why others didn't. You'll find others who will share your interests, but always maintain a bright positive attitude through a desire to learn. Those that do, will emerge as better human beings in a post-peak oil world, or for that matter at the end of each day. Just take it one day at a time, because it seems you're contemplating all that lays ahead in the future, and appears to be overwhelming you. Anytime you feel yourself getting depressed, do something nice for yourself, like that bicycle ride, or a walk in a park to enjoy the sights and sounds of things that won't go away.
Oh please. I find this "take a bike ride and relax" approach to this subject totally deluded. It's just one step away from our rulers' head-in-the-sand stance.
To achieve the change that will be needed to avoid even a small part of the huge dieoff that's coming, we need stronger medicine than this. A revolution would be a good first step. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11857 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: I just can't cope
ok, Joe, if you've been diagnosed with anxiety and depression you might have been told at some point that you need to retrain your thoughts to be more positive. This is true, you need to find some positive outlets for your thoughts and not spend so much time reading depressing negative information. This is very important. Even if you're on medication, if you continue to feed your negativity, the meds might not be able to overcome your depression and anxiety. You need to make a deliberate effort to find some positive outlets, some positive aspect you can concentrate on. Even if you can't drag yourself away from the idea of peak oil completely. For instance, I'll give you my own example. I'm quite obsessed with peak oil and have been for months. I'm on anti-anxiety and antidepressant meds, and antipsychotic meds. To find positive outlet, I'm concentrating on what I can do to encourage people I know to change their lives to be more sustainable, and doing as much as I can in my own life to become more sustainable. So, I'm learning to grow my own food, and starting to learn about renewable energy (photovoltaic in my case), solar cooking, and all this fun stuff. I find it exciting and intriguing, and not "survivalist" or "doomerish" at all. I like the Planning forum here, because people post in there about thigns they're actually doing to improve their lives. People usually seem excited and happy about what they're doing in that forum. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
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