I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Technology of getting oil from shale
pstarr wrote:
kochevnik wrote:
This seems to be a recurring theme with shale oil. First it was, it'll be viable when oil is $8 a barrel, and then $20 a barrlel, then $ 40 a barrel. This argument is getting real old, and it's because people are too stupid to understand the concepts of thermodynamics (entropy especially).
Deffeyes said the same thing in"Beyond Oil" What people don't understand is that the mining, processing, and distribution infrastructure is built with cheap petroleum that is always a day early, so shale will never catch up. Ever. I see the same thermodynamic problems with biofuels.
It amazes me that intelligent people really believe that some day these alternatives will be cheap, that we only have to wait for that ripe moment. Sorry but it will never come. It will always be too expensive to mine.
What amazes me is that pseudo intelligent people are willing to make final judgements based on someone elses reasoning. It amazes me that people can also come into a thread, read one or two posts and think they know everything there is to know about the thread. So tell me PSTARR how $650.00 worth of saleable product from $45.00 worth of material is uneconomic. Even factoring in plant costs, depreciation, operating costs, labor etc. etc. we net $400M from $800M in revenue. Yup, those are just plain crappy economics. As for mining costs, we have met with numerous mining companies and know that our estimated mining costs are $2.50 cents a ton. Green River shale yields about 1 barrel per ton. Our costs of production without royalty to the inventor is approximately $13.00 per barrel. I know you'll be disappointed when the world doesn't crumble down around you so you can loot your local WalMart but if we have anything to do with it the world will continue without anarchy.
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Technology of getting oil from shale
go5star wrote:
pstarr wrote:
kochevnik wrote:
This seems to be a recurring theme with shale oil. First it was, it'll be viable when oil is $8 a barrel, and then $20 a barrlel, then $ 40 a barrel. This argument is getting real old, and it's because people are too stupid to understand the concepts of thermodynamics (entropy especially).
Deffeyes said the same thing in"Beyond Oil" What people don't understand is that the mining, processing, and distribution infrastructure is built with cheap petroleum that is always a day early, so shale will never catch up. Ever. I see the same thermodynamic problems with biofuels.
It amazes me that intelligent people really believe that some day these alternatives will be cheap, that we only have to wait for that ripe moment. Sorry but it will never come. It will always be too expensive to mine.
What amazes me is that pseudo intelligent people are willing to make final judgements based on someone elses reasoning. It amazes me that people can also come into a thread, read one or two posts and think they know everything there is to know about the thread. So tell me PSTARR how $650.00 worth of saleable product from $45.00 worth of material is uneconomic. Even factoring in plant costs, depreciation, operating costs, labor etc. etc. we net $400M from $800M in revenue. Yup, those are just plain crappy economics. As for mining costs, we have met with numerous mining companies and know that our estimated mining costs are $2.50 cents a ton. Green River shale yields about 1 barrel per ton. Our costs of production without royalty to the inventor is approximately $13.00 per barrel. I know you'll be disappointed when the world doesn't crumble down around you so you can loot your local WalMart but if we have anything to do with it the world will continue without anarchy.
so I came out of nowhere? Sounds like you expect to be making some money from the scam. Sorry but this an advertising-free forum. As an advertiser you need to pay someone.
Walmart? The only thing I ever bought there was a DVD from the discount bin. they don't cater to my demographics. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Technology of getting oil from shale
Wrong again, Mr. Authority PStarr. Haven't asked for a dime from anyone on this forum. Period.
I find it convenient that you didn't answer a single question that I posed to you, instead your only defense is you think I should be paying for advertising.
What exactly am I selling PStar? What exactly are you selling other than FUD? You have yet to try and dispute any portion of our process but yet you rely on others to spout your authority. Those others rely on facts and figures from the 70's and 80's. Did you read the Rand report? Did you read the last Rand report from 1980 done for the Office of Technology Assessment?
I thought you said WalMart doesn't target your demographic but a DVD in the bargain bin would have been my first guess for your purchase at WalMart.
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
