Relocation

MadScientist · Heavy Crude Joined: May 19, 2004 Posts: 383

This post is for people moving to rural areas where they know few if any of the locals.

1. Be sure this place will work for you long term before you commit. Buying property only to discover your closest neighbor is a trigger happy sex offender would suck. Or that the town police are corrupt. Or that the area gets tornados/floods/hurricanes/earthquakes frequently. Or that there's a missle silo complex a few miles west. Again, I recommend Skousen's "Strategic relocation".

2. fight individualism and get involved. There are a few social organizations that welcome whatever help they can get. Red cross, Fema, search and rescue, volunteer fire department, lions/elks/eagles clubs. Especially the emergency services organizations. These people are "in the know". You MUST make aquaintances --> friends asap. Time is short.
Seniors are also a worthwhile investment. They may remember hard times. They may remember when the local community was > the national or global community. They may remember the "live off the land" skills which you never learned. And like most people, they will open up to someone who listens and cares.
Local churches are an excellent resource too. Not the catholic/fair weather churches, I mean the hardcore ones. Some of these Christians are already the survivalist minded, self sufficient types. Even if you dont end up speaking in tongues and getting baptized in their church, some friends like these can be a huge benefit in knowledge and security after the day.

3. small rural communities may seem poor now, but they will be rich once oil is gone. Invest in the local energy sources! Buy firewood, crops, locally foraged food, water, honey, syrup, fish, etc.. Whatever is produced locally is your salvation down the road a few years, so invest in it now. So few people in my area appreciate the wealth they have in front of them. Most are still sold on "the American dream" of dollar bills and credit cards. You may well be the encouragement they need to keep on gardening/fishing/foraging.
Trade labor for goods whenever possible. You get free teaching and exercise. Eventually you will want to be providing these resources for your family and possibly others yourself. So learn well from the local experts! It is also an excellent opportunity to build rapport with locals.
Any kind of local co-op, 4H, farmer's market, etc is GOLD. Get involved with your time and money.

4. Invest in a trade which will be valuable to the locals at some point. smithing, natural medicine, library, horses, bike repair, etc. In other words, make yourself valuable to the community. Do not just be a holed-up leech off local resources.

Individualism is a luxury we can no longer afford if we wish to survive the end of oil.

I know its scary. Ive gotten very comfortable in my lazy boy typing on a keyboard too. Luckily, the people involved in these types of groups are friendly, outgoing, and living much like the way you want to be living. They tend to want you as bad as you need them.

Before you relocate, practice involvement. Check out your local chapter of the red cross or civic clubs. Taking some experience and confidence with you to your new home can only help.

"Make friends who make food"

Pops · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 1:02 pm Post subject:

Good stuff MS, thanks!
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Atr0p0s · Moderator Joined: Apr 08, 2004 Posts: 119

For us younguns (I know there are some high schoolers here)-

I suggest finding like minded sympathizers to peak oil. I can only say I really have 1 or 2. But we've all talked, and we've all decided we're going to learn what we need to learn and do what we need to do when the time and capital come.

Get involved in school sports - it is a way to exercise and practice community living.

Cut your fast food gorging. Not only will it prepare you for what will come, but it feels great (it feels like bathing your digestive tracht in soft flowers.)

Learn facts in school, not how to cut and get away with it. While learning to perfect manual labor will be important in the years to come, why not take advantage of the vast resources of knowledge that are readily available now? Afterall, we are at the height of civilization - scientifically, this is going to be just about the most you will ever be able to learn.

Don't depend on cars. Start walking or biking.

Don't be such a consumer. Turn off electrical appliances, buy less and reuse more.

Prepare yourself mentally and build resolve. That's the best you can hope to do. Be at least satisfied with the fact that you will be a young man/woman in your prime when peak hits.

gg3 · Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:51 pm Post subject:

Something else to consider: the prejudice factor. Or more specifically, hate-motivated attacks directed against you & yours at your rural retreat.

A while back, someone here mentioned that he's gay. As it happens, so am I. (yo dude, get in touch, we should discuss these contingencies in more detail) Going to a place that's saturated with the "hardcore" types of extremist churches only assures that our little patches of land would become immediate targets when crunchtime hits (if not sooner).

The same case obtains for Jews and for members of more liberal Christian denominations (remember, Islamic extremists have no problem killing moderate Muslims, as recent events in Iraq and Saudi demonstrate; and some of the fundamentalist extremists in America operate on a similar psychology). Not to mention atheists and others with "deviant" beliefs, or just people who are noticeably "different" i.e. in educational background, career choices, etc. Think of a petroleum engineer under such circumstances: being blamed by an ignorant mob for the crunch, even if s/he was working flat-out to solve it. And in some places, race and ethnicity are still relevant factors.

The option of "don't tell," i.e. living a lie, doesn't cut it. First of all it's unethical. Second, it's a violation of core individual rights by caving in to irrationality and ignorance. Third, in a pragmatic sense it's not likely to work for long, because it's impossible to conceal fundamental facts about one's life in hermetic secrecy; and when the facts get out, the reaction is likely to be that much more extreme.

So then the question: how to go about evaluating a rural area for the security issues related to being safe from hate-motivated attacks?

This is more than the usual question of rural self-defense. The normal self-defense scenarios assume that neighbors will generally cooperate in defense against a) hostile outsiders and b) criminal elements in the neighborhood. However, what if the majority of neighbors are hostile to you? Now it's you against an army, in a manner of speaking.

Is there anyone around here in Northern California who's interested in starting a sustainable rural community with rationality, equality, and "live & let live" among the core founding principles? If so, get in touch and we can discuss further.

(my personal email address is ggkangaroo@horsewell.com, remove the marsupial and the farm animal from the address to get past the spam filters; the result will be two letters before the "at" sign and four letters before the "dot com" suffix)

MrPC · Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:38 am Post subject:

Barbara · Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:05 am Post subject:

gg3,
your concerns are very understandable. I mean... you're right! That should be a scaring thought for you.
But you know: I was having the same worries last days. Small rural towns tend to be very closed communities, they still call you "a foreigner" even if you're living there for 20 years! They'll look with suspect people coming from the cities, knowing nothing about cows care or growing crops and begging around for help. And when the hard times will hit, they could see you as a "heavy weight" instead of an helper.
My worries are also about being too alone, thet's why I put together all these characteristics to find the right place:
- Far from the big cities, but very close or in a small rural town. I mean, you don't want to ride a bicycle for 30 miles if you have an heart attack or appendicitis or the house burning! And as told before, you can always trade work for food if you can't grow your own yet.
- Find a rural town where you already know someone. Any of us can find relatives living in a place like this... maybe it's time to go and see them! Many people in EU has a house in rural towns, because they like to go there on weekends or they had grandparents from that place. We can go with these friends, ask for help, saying "I want to buy a house here, it's very nice!". They'll be glad to help, and you won't be totally lost when it's time to relocate.
- Find a skill you can trade there. I mean, they can be smart in farming, but they'll like you if you bring carrying solar panels, or a bycicle powered generator, or you can built for them some technology they don't know how to make like a solar powered telephone system.
I think this could be the key point for gays or other people possible victims of prejudice. Those rural people are very down-to-earth: if you can save their lives in a way or another, they won't give a blink to your religion or sexual orientation! Wink

MadScientist · Heavy Crude Joined: May 19, 2004 Posts: 383

I wouldnt recommend going somewhere that is "saturated" with any specific minority. Its too easy for one wacky leader to start trouble. At the same time, the more "off system" people the better, as they will surely make the community better able to transition.

In my tiny community we have a moderate (apathetic?)mainstream christian white majority. Sprinkled around the area are a few gays, hardcore christians, ethnic minorities, survival/conspiracy nutballs Cool

. While there is certainly tension between individuals from time to time, there is no indication that people would be targeted by hatred for their color/beliefs. There are more bush/kerry or packer/lions fights than anything. Now if they start stealing food or poaching game, thats a reason to track em down...

Get involved with your local community before TSHTF. You dont want to be finding this stuff out after its too late to move on. Someone who is valuable and known to the community is going to be protected regardless. The single biggest liability- more than color or sexual preference- is to be a stranger to everyone.
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Pops · Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:55 pm Post subject:

Random thoughts - building on MS’s posts.

Be VERY good to your immediate neighbors, they are the ones who will tell the community about you.

Here are some rules of etiquette from my area of the country that may not be obvious to those moving from town (I assume it’s similar in other rural areas):
Be respectful of your neighbor’s time, property lines, and privacy; never borrow tools but always offer to loan, always wait for an offer of help and always repay favors in kind; keep an eye out for their property, animals, etc, but don’t appear nosey. Be a little bit reticent – most folks out there have taken their entire lives getting to know one another and want to feel you out before knowing your life story.

When trying to integrate into a new community, become a supplier:
If you can garden, grow more than you need and start a little “honor system” stand, donate the surplus to local charities, same with other homegrowns; flowers; eggs, milk & cheese where legal. Start bartering early for these or other goods to establish your flexibility.

Expose your skills by donating your time:
If you have a talent such as carpentry, sewing or computer ability, offer your services to the local senior center, churches, Habitat for Humanity or other charity.
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MadScientist · Heavy Crude Joined: May 19, 2004 Posts: 383

My Grandmother, who's now 93, is a big fan of building "credit" with people. She always over paid everything a little. She wasnt wealthy, but she understood the value of being on the plus side of the credit game.

Like Pops said- loan people stuff, help them out for free, do them favors, etc. Someday, you may need a favor yourself and its a good feeling to be able to ask someone for a hand and not feel indebted.

It really goes a long ways towards goodwill. Especially since most people assume you are lazy and poor until you prove otherwise :D

I tend to choose my "credit-building" projects based on a couple criteria:

1. if the person really is in a bind, I always try and help as much as I can. This kind of help is usually well remembered.

2. If a good opportunity arises where the help I can lend, even if its just consulting, far outweighs the work involved for me, I try to help.

3. If I owe the person a favor or am neutral, I try to help out.

People dont ask me for help too much. I usually hafta volunteer. If someone does start relying on my help too much, I just start finding things I need from them in return so we stay somewhat balanced.
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"The future power is manpower"

Pops · Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:

I think most rural folks have a problem asking for help. I wasn’t raised to ask for help - I’d find a way to do things myself or do without first.

But a good illustration can be made with the folks who moved into our little 1-20ac semi-rural area from in-town.

The lady of the house had no trouble sending a kid over to ask for 4 or 5 eggs, then a few moments later a cup of sugar and then – this is great – 2 cups of OLIVE oil to cook the eggs in!

Now we have chickens and the eggs are no problem, but in the 2 years they lived next door I can’t count what we “lent” them – and they never offered to pay us back. I wouldn’t have taken them up, but that is not the point.

And here is the kicker; the man of the house was a dentist who also owned numerous rentals, had maybe $150k worth of vehicles in the driveway and hadn’t lifted a finger to do a bit of work on the place himself. I assume that he thought nothing of the fact that I was keeping track of what they asked and how much they offered in return - regardless of what payment I might have accepted. At some point their credit would have run out.

See how your neighbors can form opinions?
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Pops · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:42 pm Post subject:

Thought I might bring this back up as I have some new insight. Here is what I think I’ve done right since our relocation (who knows what I’ve done wrong LOL):

Helped the neighbors texture the house their milker lives in
helped the same neighbor milk when his milker had to be in the hospital
told the wife we should get paint here instead of China-Mart just loud enough for the proprietor of the little independent hardware store to hear – we’ve been back 4-5 times already
placed our huge fortune on deposit at the local bank
Asked advice of just about everyone we’ve met – I’d rather be a willing greenhorn than an arrogant slick.

Some things I haven’t done:

Talk politics, religion or gossip (although I’m sure we’re the subject of some)
Asked any favors
Made any disparaging comments about the habits either of the local communities - Amish & English to the other.

While I look like everyone here (the population is almost 99% white), my wife, who is Portuguese but looks very much Mexican, has received a warm welcome from everyone - to her relief, and the only comment so far was from the milker’s wife who IS Mexican (that family is probably the other 1% of the population), can’t speak any English and was probably hoping to have someone to talk too.

Anyway, so far so good.
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Grond · Tar Sands Joined: Sep 13, 2004 Posts: 29

jato · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject:

Grond · Tar Sands Joined: Sep 13, 2004 Posts: 29

jato · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject: