How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 251 Location: Siberia of Canada
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject:
KiddieKorral wrote:
Imagine that happening in January:(
Electricity is not used for winter heating in Moscow with rare exceptions. ~95% of all residential property is heated either directly with natural gas or, most of it, with water heated by burning coal or gas at the so-called "heat plants". I heard that a real serious heat outage took place in Moscow in 1979 when the temperature fell below -40 in December, but the city infrastructure was not supposed to handle temperatures below -30.
Joined: Jun 02, 2004 Posts: 1078 Location: Bristol, UK
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject:
Russian_Cowboy wrote:
KiddieKorral wrote:
Imagine that happening in January.
Electricity is not used for winter heating in Moscow with rare exceptions. ~95% of all residential property is heated either directly with natural gas or, most of it, with water heated by burning coal or gas at the so-called "heat plants." I heard that a real serious heat outage took place in Moscow in 1979 when the temperature fell below -40 in December, but the city infrastructure was not supposed to handle temperatures below -30.
Electricity might not being used for heating directly but it's the little thinks like the central heating water pump that is, or even the ignition on the gas boiler. _________________ "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen." The Emperor (Return of the Jedi)
The Oil Drum: Europe
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 251 Location: Siberia of Canada
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject:
clv101 wrote:
Electricity might not being used for heating directly but it's the little thinks like the central heating water pump that is, or even the ignition on the gas boiler.
Unfortunately, you are right. If the electricity is shut off, so are the distribution pumps that take heating water from the city central heating system and pump it to the highrise apartment blocks.
jaws wrote:
Putin is blaming it on Anatoly Chubais. Another oligarch headed for prison perhaps?
MOSCOW — RAO UES chief Anatoliy Chubais will be summoned to the general prosecutor's office for questioning in connection with a criminal case filed against the company's management, Natalya Vishnyakova, spokesperson for the general prosecutor's office, has said at a news briefing in Moscow.
"We are aware that presently, he is involved in coping with this failure's aftermath and restoring the power supply, but shortly after that, within the next few hours, he will be summoned to the detective's office for questioning," she said.
Following the investigation, RAO UES managers may be charged with negligence and abuse of authority. The work of each executive and officer responsible for power supply will be evaluated during the investigation. The overall amount of damages caused by the failure will also be estimated. Vishnyakova noted that at present, it was difficult to estimate the scale of violations of citizens' rights in connection with this, but these violations were obviously significant, as human lives and health were put under threat.
The criminal case was filed in connection with blackouts in Moscow and a number of other regions
Joined: May 07, 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 9:18 pm Post subject:
Another example that shows how the fragility of our civilization...
I can't imagine being trapped in Moscow's subway - the distance between stops is huge and it's must be hot as in hell..
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2613 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 5:03 am Post subject:
The only thing this shows is that the russians can't take care of their power plants. Okay if power lines fail, they aren't checked everyday, but a plant? There have to be people at it everyday! Also, the plant was built in the fifties, and I figure maintenance wasn't really a priority.
Lesson: Take care of stuff or it breaks. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 3:30 am Post subject: More on this
Here's more about the Muscovites' reaction.
Wednesday was quite the unusual day for Muscovites - whether they were trapped underground in suddenly still, unlit subway trains, getting stuck in elevators, or simply unable to get to and from work and buy ice-cream. The blackout that Russian officials had said would never happen affected half the city directly and the rest indirectly, by interrupting the traffic and tying up phone lines.
Suddenly the lights blinked and the hot water stopped running. “Here I am, covered in soap, and thinking, oh ****, the heater has burned out the fuses.” When he discovered the apartment next door also had no electricity, he guessed that his heater had taken out the entire building. “Later we found out that half of Moscow was out. But I still think it was all because of my water heater,” Kaganov says.
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