Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Posts: 1104 Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: I've Changed My Mind
kochevnik wrote:
So, I now believe that complete and total collapse is most likely averted (at least for a few more decades, anyways).
So, why don't I feel better ?
Because you've been watching an alcoholic who's been on a binge for over a hundred years, you drew some hope from the thought that he'd worked his way through about half the liquor cabinet, and now you're discovering that he's discovered a whole basement full of highly toxic moonshine.
I came to the conclusion that collapse as seems to be so much of the focus on peakoil.com is just not that likely. More a continued degradation until a real environmental collapse takes place much later in the century. I think if you take into account the significant amount of demand destruction that is possible--too many cars, too many tourists, etc--and the additional production capacity that probably exists with new development--gas liquids, coal liquifcation, nuclear, burning shale--we'll have plenty more time to demonstrate just how well humans have evolved into entropy producing machines.
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: I've Changed My Mind
I 100% aggree with you. Governments and companies would be happy if every woman had 20 babies each and each of them had 20 babies. Investor returns would be 500% per year easy. If we can use shale if there was nothing else we would. It's like if you say "the world's going to die in 40 years if we continue doing what we are doing" response back is "I'll be dead by then, why should i care". Very good post, it's shows the mentality of people. Honestly I think the human species is a dud. We are not smart enough, it's like some animals learn't to crack open nuts, but weren't smart enough to begin using tools. We learn't how to use fossil fuels, but we arn't smart enough to learn the level above that. Alot of people think the human races ability is infinate in intellegence, but with 6 billion people, not one person can find a solution for a new energy source. Human Brains do not have enough ability, we have reached the limits of our intellegence and cannot progress further, we are going to become extinct.
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:04 am Post subject: Re: I've Changed My Mind
Look at New Orleans. Collapse is here now. The world has gone over the climate cliff. The arctic permafrost has melted and is releasing methane. The arctic sea ice cap will soon be a memory increasing sunlight absorption.
It doesn't matter how much dirty fossil fuel you dig up. Costal flooding and inland droughts have already decreased global crop yields and displaced populations. Wars will be fought for water and food. Stressed social systems collapse. Look at the mercenaries deployed against the flood survivors in New Orleans. Government officials variously referred to the poverty stricken flood survivors as scumbags, cockroaches, and insurgents.
Collapse is here now _________________ "The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:42 am Post subject: Re: I've Changed My Mind
MicroHydro wrote:
Look at New Orleans. Collapse is here now. The world has gone over the climate cliff. The arctic permafrost has melted and is releasing methane. The arctic sea ice cap will soon be a memory increasing sunlight absorption.
It doesn't matter how much dirty fossil fuel you dig up. Costal flooding and inland droughts have already decreased global crop yields and displaced populations. Wars will be fought for water and food. Stressed social systems collapse. Look at the mercenaries deployed against the flood survivors in New Orleans. Government officials variously referred to the poverty stricken flood survivors as scumbags, cockroaches, and insurgents.
Collapse is here now
And you don't need a bullshit geological degree to tell you that. (If you don't get it, forget it).
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:59 am Post subject: Re: I've Changed My Mind
I hate to say this but I think I'm better than humans, only because I'm not blinded by greed and reproduction which mostly 90% of the population are. Right now I'm spending alot of time on the drawing board seeing if I can create a dome which will shield from the possible high temperatures of the future. I'm not spending my time trying to make mass amounts of money, I'm trying to work out away to save afew humans in an environment that will be sustainable so there is still a chance for the human race to continue on. (I think after that, people will have learn't afew things). I do see the planet reaching a temparture that will not be faviourable to humans and domes will be needed to protect us from the extreams and the domes will need to be self sustainable in a ecocycle within the dome only. The dome walls can let in sunlight to grow crops & recycle co2 from the humans. I'm just throwing around ideas, but it's quite obvious in my opinion that the world will just keep getting hotter and hotter with humans on it, but if thats our fate so be it, I will look like a tard to the common person in the street but I don't care about that anymore, I only care really doing something that matters, and putting 100% effort to grow the economies of the world which people do as going to work is not the path I want to take and I see that as detrimental and I want no part in it.
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:04 am Post subject: Re: I've Changed My Mind
dukat wrote:
I 100% aggree with you. Governments and companies would be happy if every woman had 20 babies each and each of them had 20 babies. Investor returns would be 500% per year easy. If we can use shale if there was nothing else we would. It's like if you say "the world's going to die in 40 years if we continue doing what we are doing" response back is "I'll be dead by then, why should i care". Very good post, it's shows the mentality of people. Honestly I think the human species is a dud. We are not smart enough, it's like some animals learn't to crack open nuts, but weren't smart enough to begin using tools. We learn't how to use fossil fuels, but we arn't smart enough to learn the level above that. Alot of people think the human races ability is infinate in intellegence, but with 6 billion people, not one person can find a solution for a new energy source. Human Brains do not have enough ability, we have reached the limits of our intellegence and cannot progress further, we are going to become extinct.
Simply put: nature doesn't support intelligent self-awareness. The more I experience humans, the more convinced I become of this truth... _________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
Joined: Jun 20, 2004 Posts: 250 Location: California
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:15 am Post subject: To kochevnik
I hope you feel good about helping to kill nuclear power in the US. You've helped bring about the future you now fret about, by helping to keep us addicted to fossil fuels.
Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Posts: 997 Location: In the suburban sea of strangers
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:25 am Post subject: Re: I've Changed My Mind
dukat wrote:
I hate to say this but I think I'm better than humans, only because I'm not blinded by greed and reproduction...
There's the root of the problem. Persons of your sort appear from time to time, but die out quickly to be replaced by ever more greedy reproducers.
The mechanics of natural selection have never produced a species with both the ability to extract vital resources at a massively unsustainable scale and the self restraint to limit the use of that ability. The same old bloom and crash we have observed countless times in other species is now happening to us.
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: I've Changed My Mind
NeoPeasant wrote:
I live in one of the shale oil states. Can I buy a special furnace and a couple tons of it and heat my house?
You could try building you own 'special furnace'. Its been done before:
Quote:
From Walter Youngquist SHALE OIL--THE ELUSIVE ENERGY
An early settler in the valley of Parachute Creek in western Colorado built a log cabin, and made the fireplace and chimney out of the easily cut, locally abundant black rock. The pioneer invited a few neighbors to a house warming. As the celebration began, he lit a fire. The fireplace, chimney,and ultimately the whole cabin caught fire, and burned to the ground. The rock was oil shale. It was a sensational house warming!
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