How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: Nov 28, 2004 Posts: 11751 Location: Neither Here Nor There
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:39 am Post subject: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
I can't help feeling that we're about to experience more than we can handle. I don't know when but I'm not real confident. The rat race has bred people who will lose their minds when reality takes it's toll.
Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 1969 Location: Democratic People's Republic of Washington
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:53 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
Quite a bit of people on FS have this type of feeling too. Does your feeling by any chance involve usurpations upon natural liberties, or a TSHTF scenario? _________________ Here Lies the United States Of America.
Joined: Aug 15, 2005 Posts: 264 Location: Hicktown OK
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:01 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
PenultimateManStanding wrote:
I can't help feeling that we're about to experience more than we can handle. I don't know when but I'm not real confident. The rat race has bred people who will lose their minds when reality takes it's toll.
Hon, I'm a severely Fark up vet, and yah, I'm scared too..but this is a bit of a different kind of fear than the one I usually deal with..
cus this is one that I can actually DO somethinng about.
It's the people who AREN'T that I am most worried about tho. _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe.-H.G. Wells
Joined: Aug 15, 2005 Posts: 264 Location: Hicktown OK
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:11 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
k_semler wrote:
Quite a bit of people on FS have this type of feeling too. Does your feeling by any chance involve usurpations upon natural liberties, or a TSHTF scenario?
"usurpations upon natural liberties"?
I think that's basically what I was touching upon here: http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic13331-30.html _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe.-H.G. Wells
Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 1969 Location: Democratic People's Republic of Washington
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:23 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
A post that I made on FS that is highly applicable to Medicvet's latest post:
Myself on Frugal Squirrel wrote:
The problem with a "line in the sand" is that it is just that. It is constantly changing and moving with even the slightest breeze. There will never be a massive uprising or open rebellion. We are just like the Jews in occupied Europe. We as a people hope that by complying with the new orders, and not making a fuss about it, we will be looked upon as "good citizens" and ignored. In reality, they are using our passive actions to further justify the further encrochment of liberty. More rights have been limited and eventually taken by slow but deliberate action, rather than abrupt and unplanned action. Every time another unconstitutional law or ruling is passed, there is just the faintest hint of disharmony. Even when it is so impacting as emminent domain.
On June 23, 2005, the right for a citizen of the United States to own property was forever undermined by the SCOTUS. Do you hear any rebellions or uprisings caused by this ruling? I sure haven't. In fact, the reaction has been opposite. The people have come to accept it with hardly a whisper of resistance. The same has been true in the past, and the same shall occur in the future. So far, we as a people have not rebelled against anything since 1861, so why should we expect a future generation to? I honestly don't expect anything more than what this generation has done. Surrender all freedoms willingly in the name of protecting against a foriegn enemy, but actually undermining the very principals upon which this nation was founded.
What logic is there in GWB saying "The terrorists hate us because of our freedoms.", and then proceeding to eliminate the freedoms that the terrorists "hate us" for? Seems like nothing but capitulation to the globalist agenda to me.
My only hope is the Thomas Jefforson quote. "...There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.... That would put the next rebellion at around 2011 at the very latest. God willing, Mr. Jefforson is right. It is the only hope for restoration of a Constitutional Republic.
_________________ Here Lies the United States Of America.
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:18 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
PenultimateManStanding wrote:
I can't help feeling that we're about to experience more than we can handle. I don't know when but I'm not real confident. The rat race has bred people who will lose their minds when reality takes it's toll.
This may sound callous, it's not meant to, but to be realistic:
Over in NZ, Labour who can now formally lead the next government did have a PO commission as part of their energy manifesto. This means the government is going to look at the potential dates and, this is the important part, work out the impacts of getting the date wrong, eg too early or too late.
So there may well be countries who start to power down.
Now as we walk into the fog of future, if the countries that don't power down start to implode on themselves, it will give more encouragement to the countries that do choose to power down to continue on that track. _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Joined: Mar 18, 2005 Posts: 2563 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:35 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
Unknowns are always scary, especially when the unknown is our future. I've been doing a little self examining lately (i've been having a feeling of dread myself) and i found that what i'm feeling is the same as when i was 18 & moved out of my parants house.
about all ya can really do is keep your eyes & ears open, & try to be the voice of reason when-ever you can...if that doesn't work...load the 12 guage
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 4144 Location: THE MATRIX
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:06 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
yeah and as my Dad always said "Stop being a pussy!"
I have been feeling this also - things are occuring alittle too quickly for my "po reality".
As if the basic knowledge of PO isnt enough we have katrina/rita and all the news story that pertain to PO floating about.
We should be happy that the issue is being address by governments and people alike.
I am with Pops believing that knowledge is power!!!
Our group of 4 have decided to divide this and each learn something different.
Of course we all need to know pretty much everything yet there is only so much extra space in our brains - we will learn from each other over time.
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:41 am Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
Blog _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
Well said, Aaron, and I agree completely. Natural selection did not select us for our ability to hold hands and sing kumbaya. Natural selection chose us because we were the meanest, baddest, cruelest, most efficient hunters on the surface of the planet, bar none. And unlike most other species, we will even hunt our own kind.
Once upon a time I used to tell people that there are no "aliens" or "predators" out there in the universe. We are those things and if we ever managed to get off planet, any other species that ran into us would likely crap in their spacesuits. However, it seems nature is about to try to confine us to this single dust mote in a far corner of the galaxy. That may actually be a good thing for the rest of the universe but it still leaves us dealing with one another.
What I find mind-boggling is that once someone chooses to prepare, that they choose to prepare for some cuddly soft landing. This is equivalent to hurricane alley people building homes for 100 mph winds and when asked about 150 mph winds or 175 mph winds, they smile and tell you it will never get that bad. The guy who builds for the worst case is not going to be bothered by an intermediate case. On the other hand, the person who prepares for an intermediate peak oil case is likely to be rudely and disappointingly surprised by whatever curve balls peak oil actually does throw our way.
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
GreyZone wrote:
... However, it seems nature is about to try to confine us to this single dust mote in a far corner of the galaxy. That may actually be a good thing for the rest of the universe but it still leaves us dealing with one another...
Maybe that's because nature also selects for cooperative relationships in a climax ecology. You may need to update your Darwinism.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11854 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
Humans are social primates and the most successful social primates are those that get along the best with the others in their group. Outcasts generally die.
So if getting along with your group means holding hands and singing kumbaya, better get with the program.
Then you can all go beat the crap out of the folks who are trying to steal your group's stuff. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
Scared too, but there is little any of us can do on a macro scale. Get informed, become adaptable, take some of pop's advice (to what ever degree you see fit).
I think an economic crunch (several??) will play out first, causing demand destruction, and backing of PO for a few years, maybe a decade. Remember, there was a huge drop in demand caused by 79 iranian rev, and subsequent recession. Aaron, (dark blog btw) correct me if I'm wrong, but 67 bbpd to mid fifties, not coming back to 67 till 1985??
This will buy a lot of time.
Scared, but long term scared.
Short term scared is 'will I have a job next year??'
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: All Kidding Aside, I'm Scared
Quote:
Aaron, (dark blog btw) correct me if I'm wrong, but 67 bbpd to mid fifties, not coming back to 67 till 1985??
Why use the entire 6 year period, when focusing in on only one year proves your point so much better? (Come on...)
No doubt there will be demand destruction... dead people don't use oil.
I'm not scared of oil depletion at all.
But I'm scared shitless about what a world full of abject poverty by the billions, and spoiled brats by the millions, looks like. Especially since there have never been more people; this pissed off; and well armed, EVER before in history.
Take billions of people, millions of weapons & cultural prejudice.
Mix well.
Force ever growing gaps between the richest & poorest.
Bake at 450 degrees for a decade.
Remove from oven, and cover with resource depletion.
Serve immediately.
Enough for 6.5 billion plus descendants.
------------------------------------------------
I think the same thing I always think... A small number of gifted individuals will take the high-road, while the vast majority go the brain munching zombie route, as it were.
Allot of people... will make many really stupid choices... and we are gonna fight like the world has never seen in generations. Consider that as bad as things are many places on Earth, we live during the time of a peak in energy wealth... our entire western civilization is based on it. It's downhill from here.
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