Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
I noticed that there have been 1000 views of this thread in three days,so I'll just add a couple things,and stop goofing off.
1.Shotgun plus 200 rounds min.
2.water for 30 days.
3.Essential survival items,if you dont know what they are,do a search.
4.Location water source ahead of time.<for when you are running short.>
5.Location to aquire whatever else maybe needed before you need it.
6.2 escape routes <if worse comes to worse>
7.destination. _________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
seahorse2 wrote:
Daryl,
You're right that most people flee the urban areas, but not everyone, the looters/criminals stay behind - New Orleans is a good example. So, you will have good company. I also think people underestimate the power of one armed person willing to shoot. People are like water, they follow the least path of resistance. The looters have a tendency to go through the vacant homes and rob from those that don't shoot back. Again, New Orleans is a good example, but also Hurricane Andrew and even the Rodney King riots.
New Orleans is a good example of the poor being left behind. And most urban poor are black. (White people 'find', black people 'loot'.)
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
UIUCstudent01 wrote:
New Orleans is a good example of the poor being left behind.
Left behind? Most humans are blessed with a pair of great appendages that allow for easy locomotion. The problem in New Orleans was government dependency.
Quote:
And most urban poor are black. (White people 'find', black people 'loot'.)
Please don't rehash the "find/loot" disparity. The racism was an urban legend. Yes, one picture referred to the act as "finding" and the other referred to the act as "looting", but the part they're not telling you is that the pictures were taken by two different photographers, sold through two different agencies, and distributed on two different services located in two different countries. Here's a link to the snopes.com page that deals with this issue. If you're not already aware, snopes is the premiere urban legend debunker on the internet: http://www.snopes.com/katrina/photos/looters.asp
Quote:
The violence was also overexaggerated...
How do you know this?
Quote:
You're describing a situation where food is suddenly scarce - 'looters' would be looking for food or transportation (to get out to find food). Looters won't be looking for a new T.V. when their stomach is in pain...
This would contribute to an increase in violence. People competing over survival essentials makes violence practically inevitable. _________________ "If pigs could vote, the man with the slop bucket would be elected swineherd every time, no matter how much slaughtering he did on the side."
- Orson Scott Card
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1371 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
The_Libertarian wrote:
People competing over survival essentials makes violence practically inevitable.
While the following describes a siege, instead of a loss of economic means, food supply, and other infrastructure, it stll has implications in a sharp decline scenario.
Throughout the city people were dying of hunger in large numbers, and enduring unspeakable sufferings. In every house the merest hint of food sparked violence, and close relatives fell to blows, snatching from one another the pitiful supports of life. No respect was paid even to the dying; the ruffians [anti-Roman zealots] searched them, in case they were concealing food somewhere in their clothes, or just pretending to be near death. Gaping with hunger, like mad dogs, lawless gangs went staggering and reeling through the streets, battering upon the doors like drunkards, and so bewildered that they broke into the same house two or three times in an hour. Need drove the starving to gnaw at anything. Refuse which even animals would reject was collected and turned into food.
Among the residents of the region beyond Jordan was a woman called Mary, daughter of Eleazar, of the village of Bethezuba (the name means "House of Hyssop"). She was well off, and of good family, and had fled to Jerusalem with her relatives, where she became involved with the siege. Most of the property she had packed up and brought with her from Peraea had been plundered by the tyrants [Simon and John, leaders of the Jewish war-effort], and the rest of her treasure, together with such foods as she had been able to procure, was being carried by their henchmen in their daily raids. In her bitter resentment the poor woman cursed and abused these extortioners, and this incensed them against her. However, no one put her to death either from exasperation or pity. She grew weary of trying to find food for her kinsfolk. In any case, it was by now impossible to get any, wherever you tried. Famine gnawed at her vitals, and the fire of rage was ever fiercer than famine.
So, driven by fury and want, she committed a crime against nature. Seizing her child, an infant at the breast, she cried, "My poor baby, why should I keep you alive in this world of war and famine? Even if we live till the Romans come, they will make slaves of us; and anyway, hunger will get us before slavery does; and the rebels are crueler than both. Come, be food for me, and an avenging fury to the rebels, and a tale of cold horror to the world to complete the monstrous agony of the Jews." With these words she killed her son, roasted the body, swallowed half of it, and stored the rest in a safe place. But the rebels were on her at once, smelling roasted meat, and threatening to kill her instantly if she did not produce it. She assured them she had saved them a share, and revealed the remains of her child. Seized with horror and stupefaction, they stood paralyzed at the sight. But she said, "This is my own child, and my own handiwork. Eat, for I have eaten already. Do not show yourselves weaker than a woman, or more pitiful than a mother. But if you have pious scruples, and shrink away from human sacrifice, then what I have eaten can count as your share, and I will eat what is left as well." At that they slunk away, trembling, not daring to eat, although they were reluctant to yield even this food to the mother. The whole city soon rang with the abomination. When people heard of it, they shuddered, as though they had done it themselves. _________________ http://www.carfree.com http://ecoplan.org/carshare/cs_index.htm http://www.velomobile.de/GB/Advantages/advantages.html
Chance favors the prepared mind. -- Louis Pasteur
He that lives upon hope will die fasting. --Benjamin Franklin
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
The_Libertarian wrote:
UIUCstudent01 wrote:
New Orleans is a good example of the poor being left behind.
Left behind? Most humans are blessed with a pair of great appendages that allow for easy locomotion. The problem in New Orleans was government dependency.
You are so right! I mean, really...how hard could it possibly be to strap on 30 pounds of canned food, and another 30 pounds of bottled water and start walking?!
Joined: Feb 03, 2005 Posts: 111 Location: Nowhere Fast
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
You might want to also consider the possibility that there will not be any sudden and permanent interuption in the food supply. It is always good to have at least a few weeks of extra food around. Beyond that I am much more concerned with issues related to a long and slow decline. Stuff like paying off debts and keeping a job or getting by for extended periods without one.
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
Yes , I agree. Considering the consequences of a quick crash-die off, there isn't much point speculating about that or preparing for that. There's no way.
I don't think emergency food and water and guns are that important, even though they are not bad to have around and could be useful under many circumstances.
Like you said, it is much more likely that one of the main effects of this will be a very high unemployment rate. I'm not sure even having a post Peak skill will help. There will be too many people chasing too few jobs, no matter what they are. Your options open up if you have assets to invest now. If Peak Oil happens, your investments might appreciate enough help get you through a long period with little income. People might want to think about how their IRA money is invested. I'm not sure how to play this, but certainly the general stock market will tank, interests rates should remain low. Precious metals, coal mining stocks, that type of thing should do well.
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1371 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
Daryl wrote:
Yes , I agree. Considering the consequences of a quick crash-die off, there isn't much point speculating about that or preparing for that. There's no way.
For those with that attitude, they have chosen their fate if any of those scenarios come into being. There will almost always be some who survive after any catastrophe, and those will primarily be the ones who prepare. Might we have a moderate or soft landing? Quite possibly, though with a serious depression, how will people be able to afford to eat?
Quote:
I don't think emergency food and water and guns are that important, even though they are not bad to have around and could be useful under many circumstances.
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
skyemoor wrote:
The_Libertarian wrote:
People competing over survival essentials makes violence practically inevitable.
While the following describes a siege, instead of a loss of economic means, food supply, and other infrastructure, it stll has implications in a sharp decline scenario.
Throughout the city people were dying of hunger in large numbers, and enduring unspeakable sufferings. In every house the merest hint of food sparked violence, and close relatives fell to blows, snatching from one another the pitiful supports of life. No respect was paid even to the dying; the ruffians [anti-Roman zealots] searched them, in case they were concealing food somewhere in their clothes, or just pretending to be near death. Gaping with hunger, like mad dogs, lawless gangs went staggering and reeling through the streets, battering upon the doors like drunkards, and so bewildered that they broke into the same house two or three times in an hour. Need drove the starving to gnaw at anything. Refuse which even animals would reject was collected and turned into food.
Among the residents of the region beyond Jordan was a woman called Mary, daughter of Eleazar, of the village of Bethezuba (the name means "House of Hyssop"). She was well off, and of good family, and had fled to Jerusalem with her relatives, where she became involved with the siege. Most of the property she had packed up and brought with her from Peraea had been plundered by the tyrants [Simon and John, leaders of the Jewish war-effort], and the rest of her treasure, together with such foods as she had been able to procure, was being carried by their henchmen in their daily raids. In her bitter resentment the poor woman cursed and abused these extortioners, and this incensed them against her. However, no one put her to death either from exasperation or pity. She grew weary of trying to find food for her kinsfolk. In any case, it was by now impossible to get any, wherever you tried. Famine gnawed at her vitals, and the fire of rage was ever fiercer than famine.
So, driven by fury and want, she committed a crime against nature. Seizing her child, an infant at the breast, she cried, "My poor baby, why should I keep you alive in this world of war and famine? Even if we live till the Romans come, they will make slaves of us; and anyway, hunger will get us before slavery does; and the rebels are crueler than both. Come, be food for me, and an avenging fury to the rebels, and a tale of cold horror to the world to complete the monstrous agony of the Jews." With these words she killed her son, roasted the body, swallowed half of it, and stored the rest in a safe place. But the rebels were on her at once, smelling roasted meat, and threatening to kill her instantly if she did not produce it. She assured them she had saved them a share, and revealed the remains of her child. Seized with horror and stupefaction, they stood paralyzed at the sight. But she said, "This is my own child, and my own handiwork. Eat, for I have eaten already. Do not show yourselves weaker than a woman, or more pitiful than a mother. But if you have pious scruples, and shrink away from human sacrifice, then what I have eaten can count as your share, and I will eat what is left as well." At that they slunk away, trembling, not daring to eat, although they were reluctant to yield even this food to the mother. The whole city soon rang with the abomination. When people heard of it, they shuddered, as though they had done it themselves.
yeh, thanks for that. I must admit i was looking for some guidance on'what to do the next time the romans besiege my town....
Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 2864 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
Suburban survial, that's a great topic. I do have a bugout plan and spot to go but I do not want to be camped out on a interstate like the Houstonians were for Hurricane Rita. Just joining this thread late so if any of this has been repeated sorry. My little acronynm for Survival is PARA. (Preperation, attitude, relaxation, and awareness) focus on those 4 areas and you will be ahead of the game. Here's a few tips I can pass along.
Drinking water-My city is right on the edge of a lake, if you know how to clean it the supply is infinite. I have 2 water filters, bleach and 3 camp stoves to purify (Propane,butane, and dual-unleaded)
Hygeine-If the water is turned off, I have a coleman solar shower($10). Holds 5 gallons which is roughly 45lbs so I hang it in the garage with a tupperware tub to catch the water to reuse to flush the toilet.
Climate-Staying warm is not really a problem in Texas, besides I have enough sleeping bags to ride out the cold. Hot weather is a issue in Texas and 2 years ago I got into hammock camping. when nothing is insulating the down side it's amazing how cool you can stay. 80 degrees is my tolerance level.
Guns-12 gauge-nuff said. I also have a mixed bag of left over ammo from other guns I keep in case I need to barter. (20ga,.22,.357, and .3.
This is a good place to swap ideas. _________________ In other words, it's a huge sh*t sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite.-from Full Metal Jacket
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
SinisterBlueCat wrote:
The_Libertarian wrote:
UIUCstudent01 wrote:
New Orleans is a good example of the poor being left behind.
Left behind? Most humans are blessed with a pair of great appendages that allow for easy locomotion. The problem in New Orleans was government dependency.
You are so right! I mean, really...how hard could it possibly be to strap on 30 pounds of canned food, and another 30 pounds of bottled water and start walking?!
First, you don't need sixty pounds of gear to survive long enough to reach help, especially if you work with other people. Second, "easy" and "hard" are not an issue. Of course it's going to be hard. But it's POSSIBLE. _________________ "If pigs could vote, the man with the slop bucket would be elected swineherd every time, no matter how much slaughtering he did on the side."
- Orson Scott Card
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Short term suburban survival planning
Doly wrote:
The_Libertarian wrote:
Most humans are blessed with a pair of great appendages that allow for easy locomotion. The problem in New Orleans was government dependency.
No, the problem was that those that tried to walk out of there came across a government block that didn't allow them to.
This was one group of people who tried to cross a bridge. I agree with you that this was dispicable, but it wasn't racism, as was so widely reported. If anything, it was once again an example of how government just gets in the way. Another example of this is all the individuals and groups who tried helping out but were turned away by FEMA and other organizations. _________________ "If pigs could vote, the man with the slop bucket would be elected swineherd every time, no matter how much slaughtering he did on the side."
- Orson Scott Card
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