THE Venezuela/Chavez Thread (merged)

azreal60

Back to Venezuela, I'm too wondering at the dirth of any real accurate reporting on this guy. Either one side is right, and he's one of the few orginal leaders of our time, or the other side is right and he's a much more intelligent Sadam. I'm honestly leading towards orginality, it would take a Very smart bad guy to realize that playing to the press would be a good thing. Most of the truely evil down there and other parts of the world don't give a s*#$ if you like them, they do what they want anyway. I really don't see Chavez moving to help the poor in other countrys, even the US, if he didn't really believe the stuff he was saying.

In fact, in a way you could say that his helping the poor in other countrys proves he's on the level. Not because it proves sterling intentions, but because if all he was about was using his empathy with the poor to secure a powerbase, why would he bother with the poor in countries he is never going to control in anyway? Dictators are well aware of where their power extends too. Name me another dictator that provided humanitarian relief that wasn't obviously a cover, and I'll consede the point.

I think that as soon as a man who can be painted as a communist ( and heck they are pretty much correct, it's not really a painting) he get's viewed in as negative a light as possible. So if I had to fit a the picture with how people's predjudices would play out, I would say that what I see just from this post fits a man who believes in collective action to help his nation, and is using his considerable powers to do just that. And for the people who don't like them, I believe there is a brown middle finger extended in very painful ways.... lol
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Azreal60

uNkNowN ElEmEnt

Bravo azreal. That any action a person can take can be viewed in many different ways and that we can ascribe many different motives to him is very true. Even the most charitable seeming act can have vastly different motives or far reaching agendas.

As for me? I would like to think that there is someone out there who is more than just a corrupt money grubbing capitalist like the ones the industrialized world is stuck with.

While Castro may be viewed as a dictator, he was elected too. At least that is what my mother said. My parents went to Cuba three years ago, got to tour their version of a parliament and see where Castro makes his speeches. Then she got to go see a cigar making factory where (she came prepared) she gave out the little bottles of shampoo and lipstick we get at dollar stores here.

But her favortie part of the trip of all was when she convinced the tour bus operator to let them visit a local school. They use chalk and blackboards because paper and pencils are in such short supply.

Somehow the possibility of cubans attacking the US seems like propaganda. Why would anyone want to leave a country where you can claim any house you want just because its vacant regardless of your income and own it until you decide to leave or die, to move to the land of slavery that has become the US?

clueless

I have a real stupid question :

Why is our govt. only concerned about dictators that control strategic resources or are located in strategic areas ?

Instead of Chavez threatening to cut us off, why don't we cut him off first ?

Let's boycott oil !!!!

Are you listening Amurica ?????

uNkNowN ElEmEnt

Because Chavez supplies 15% of your oil and to cut him off would mean that your oil costs would go through the roof. You need him but he doesn't play ball or cow-toe to American demands.

"You luff him but you hate him. Luff hate, hate luff, zis is very powerful emotions." Adams family

Daryl · Intermediate Crude Joined: Oct 10, 2005 Posts: 927

Good article in the NY Times about Chavez

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/20/world/americas/20chavez.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

He's a demagogue, cruising to power by making unrealistic promises to the poor. He can stay in power as long as he has oil money to make some wealth redistribution possible ie buy the votes of the poor with welfare checks. Meanwhile, the country will not face its real problems. This is generally the fate of all the petro-economies. In the short term, it sounds nice that Chavez cuts a few checks to the poor, rather than Saudi sheiks blowing all the dough in Monte Carlo. In the long term, though, the results will be the same. The country is going to be right back where it started....nowhere.

uNkNowN ElEmEnt

Lighthouse · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 1458

Thanks, now I understand. Let me summarise:

The USA is like the school bully who can not make his own sandwich and there is no way he can because he ran out of bread.

All the bullied kids reached a point where they say "Enough is enough".

Now they stick together and help each other and tell the bully: "Go f&*% yourself. You don't get anything from us anymore."

But they share with the bullies cousin, who was not looked after by the bully anyway (remember there is not enough bread?)

Now the logical next step would be, that the bully feels threatend and takes the .45 of his father to school...

What comes next?

Daryl · Intermediate Crude Joined: Oct 10, 2005 Posts: 927

You should really love the US. Without us, who would you blame all the problems in the world on?

Lighthouse · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 1458

azreal60

See, that's dodging the point. I don't hate the US. Neither do alot of the people that have good things to say about chavez. I infact love my country. I don't much like it's actions sometimes, but that's like hating my daughter because she cries and throws up on me. You don't hate a country, because unless every one of it's citizens is 100 percent behind what it does, it's damn unfair.

America is quite simply in a geopolitcal position it got put in because it's rulers which we elected took a ideological position that isn't real. It's like stalin really, beliving so much in communism that he made it the one true way. Well, Bush, etc believed in their one true vision of the world so much that they made it against our beliefs that anyone else might have a way of living. What if the people of Venezuela like living in a socialistic style? Who are we to tell them "but you have to live in the caplitalistic style, or else your evil". Guess what folks, it's their country.

Iraq had reasons other than resources to go in, which is why bush got away with it. He did much other than talk nasty about Venezuela, it really would only hurt his own position. Imagine if there was any doubt in anyone's mind that sadam had been an evil dictator. And I don't just mean a few fanatically loyal people, I mean by and large the world viewed sadam as a gentle leader of the people who did great things for his country and the world at large. Imagine if that man had charisma, and there was a good chance that the good things people said about him where 100 percent correct and the rest propaganda from people who wanted him out of power so they could put in rulers sympathetic to their point of view. If you had all those things, you'd probably have Chavez.
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Azreal60

Lighthouse · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 1458

azreal60

No no no no no... LOL. Omg no. I'm saying it would be wrong to do that because she doesn't know any better. Likewise, it would be wrong to hate the US because the actions of the people currently in power don't reflect the personal views of the entire country. ...

LOL, god no, I love my little darling. Even when she does scream at me so much I can't hear what my wife says to me.. lol
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Azreal60

Lighthouse · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 1458

Daryl · Intermediate Crude Joined: Oct 10, 2005 Posts: 927