Is tolerance dead in Netherlands?

stu · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject: Is tolerance dead in Netherlands?

Following the murder of Theo van Gogh and the recent arrests of terror suspects in Holland people are saying that the famous Dutch tolerance is possibly going to end.

Dutch police make terror arrests

rogerhb

Chocky

I guess maybe the super-conservative Northern African/Islamic culture just isn't very compatible with the famously progressive and tolerant Dutch culture. If I was Dutch I'd be asking myself, 'What are we actually getting out of these immigrants? How are they actually benefiting our country?'.

rogerhb

americandream

To me mate from tassie..here's a wee something to put ya to bed

once upon a time there was the Cold War with the bad killjoy commies...and all was well with Osama and them muslim god fearing brave commie fighting boys. Alas all the commies gave up and took to mammon...and as for them muslim boys..dunno what happened there..they went all funny!!!

End of bed time story.
_________________
Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!

JayBee

When the going gets tough, the weak run away...

Ireland is now home to thousands of Dutch people (white ones to be precise).

Rather than face up to the problems in their country Dutch people have been buying up land and building new houses and lives for themselves in Ireland.

My own own township consists of 15 houses. Five of them Dutch. This is repeated over and over along the western coast.

The most common male birth name in Holland is now Muhammed. Holland will be an Islamic nation in the not too distant future.

For tollerant read push-over.
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The Good Life - http://sustainable-life.co.uk/blog/

Sleepybag

Holland is undergoing a growing radicalisation of Muslims and Non-Muslims in recent years.

The young (mainly second generation) Turks and Maroccans grew up being Western and also islamic. They grew up in low-income, "immigrant ghetto" neighbourhoods. More then 50% of births in Amsterdam is now from islamic parents. They went to school in Holland, but at home, they grew up in traditional islam tradition. They are now the ones that have to adapt or go radical.

Recent event in the world have made it harder for these kids. Since 9/11, muslims are looked at with a lot of suspicion. They now know they are a kind of second class citizens. Not having an equal chance of work, denied entrance to discotheques, punished harder by police forces. That has made them angry, put them in more isolation, and made some even more fundamental.

The ones that were arrested last weekend, were aquainted with the murderer of Theo van Gogh, and some have been arrested more then once.

Sending "them" back is not really an option, since most were born and raised here. However, a lot of Dutch people now feel alienated in their own country. What will this result in?

Quicksilver · Tar Sands Joined: Jul 30, 2005 Posts: 80

What will happen to tolerance and immigration after peak oil? Both will probably end. We may see the expulsion of muslims from Europe in the not too distant future.

Doly · Expert Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 4031

Free

I am totally for immigration, multiculturalism and against racism. However, I have always had the opinion that this must be done in an open, transparent way where all conditions are clearly understood by everybody involved.

Long enough nobody cared. The deal was that the immigrants came here and did the dirty work and payed our pensions, as long as they stayed low, almost invisible, and didn't cause too much hassle. The immigrants were happy enough as well as long as nobody interfered too much in their daily life.

This laisser-faire policy which cared only about the economical effects, not the cultural ones was a big mistake. Now it is becoming increasingly clear that this just doesn't work. Conflicts will arise, wherever two different value-sets clash.

It is no problem if a country tells the immigrant BEFOREHAND what he has to expect, what rules he has to follow. But it is a problem if an immigrant lives here for the 2nd generation or longer, is still denied the same chances as the other citizens, and sees his culture and values in danger (from his perspective) - At the same time excluded but not allowed to live like he wants in that exclusion.

We can only hope that after some point one generation of immigrants will assimilate - this has to go both ways! They have to have the same rights and obligations as all other citizens.

But multiculturalism becomes an illusion and a fairy tale exactly then when two values just can't live together. If a muslim immigrant sees the law of god as higher as the law of the state he is living in, this is a big problem, as the state must not tolerate this.

So immigration yes, but under clear terms and with efforts from all sides, otherwise this spells desaster.

But of course nobody will confront this problem until it becomes too painful to ignore.
Politicians, and even more the electorate, remind me of children who don't wanna do their homework, always think "tomorrow tomorrow", and then cry at the end of the school year when they have to bring home bad marks...

rogerhb

foodnotlawns · permanently banned Joined: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 264

there's no reason you "can't" send them back. Put them on a plane, fly the plane back to their ancestor's homeland, drop them off, rinse, repeat.

Just because they were born in Europe or the US doesn't mean they "can't" go back. Of course they can! And I'd gladly sign the deportation order and fly the plane (with the passengers cuffed to their seats of course).

If we were feeling generous we could send them home with some cash in their pockets for a brand new mud hut.

Dutch moving to Ireland to escape Muslims? Just like a liberal! What a bunch of hypocritical cowards! Force integration on the local school, then send their own kids to private schools.

We need to force liberals to eat their own dog food, and without any gravy either!

rogerhb

Sleepybag

The following quote is taken from an article called "The Sinking Dutchman", and it was publiced on the website of the Brussels Journal about a week ago.

rogerhb