Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: [Location] Urban vs. Rural
Maybe just outside a college town, like Grinnell, Iowa or Waterville, Maine would be the place for you. I went to school in Alfred, NY and that place could really be great. There were people who had their own natural gas wells that supplied all their heat. There still are farms that are for sale that have them.
I wonder where will be the best place to be, then I realize that I may be in the best place. I certainly stand to lose a lot if we go anywhere else.
There may be better places, but here is where I make my stand.
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5440 Location: Oklahoma
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: [Location] Urban vs. Rural
Revi, for what it's worth I've thought for a long time that you have a decent location. I'm still happy with my choice as well, though it remains to be seen how climate change will affect east TX (mainly thinking of precipitation patterns when I say that). _________________ "Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4467 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: [Location] Urban vs. Rural
Definitely not in the urban core. No way. This is where ugly will be clearly defined right from jump street and remain that way for quite awhile for the many reasons already mentioned, but IMO mostly due to lawlessness and lack of food.
However, I'm not too sure if true rural offers a safe way out either. Getting to a city for rare, yet critical services (as scarce as they may be), could be problematic if located a great distance from a city. 50 miles could be a very tough five day hike. 100 miles could be a dangerous 3 day bike ride.
We decided to take a middle path. We looked at a map of the USA and decided to plant ourselves exactly where urban meets rural. Nothing will be perfect, but we're both from here and this is what we decided to do. We'll do the best we can right here. It's a place where summers aren't too hot and winters are temperate enough that without heat you might get cold, but still survive just fine. Fresh water is nearby and we'll have a (sort-of) easily defendable small garden and yard-orchard offering a critical portion of our food needs.
The big problem now is that very few around here are getting ready because they don't have a grasp on what's coming. It's really quite maddening. Hopefully they catch on pretty soon. It'll make it easier on everyone. _________________ Got Dharma?
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: [Location] Urban vs. Rural
It remains to be seen where a good place to be is. I would not want to be in the urban core, either. Even if things are ok, it's not a good place to be now, unless you are really wealthy. I lived in NYC for a year when I was younger. It was fun, but now I can't see living there. It's too random. Too many people, too much noise, and now it's way too much of a target.
My brother still lives there, and I think he should get out. He didn't even hear me when I told him that it's not a safe place.
Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: [Location] Urban vs. Rural
Its not safety, its economics- for most people they can secure a good job in the city. Then there's the side benefit of culture, restaurants, coffee shops, music, diverse community, closeby healthcare, banks, grocery stores, etc.
Just my opinion...but its not urban vs. rural...its urban and rural...both are needed. Rural for food production, urban for manufacturing, trade, markets, education, hospitals, etc. Why the dichotomy?
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6580 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: [Location] Urban vs. Rural
Ludi wrote:
Personally, I think people should live where they feel comfortable ...
I agree.
I don’t think it is wrong to start with what and where you know: city mouse or country.
If you are clued in to the possible downsides of your location (and each certainly has a list of those, regardless of our reluctance to admit them) you are way ahead of the folks who think everywhere is the same because they all have Mickey D’s and BP’s.
It seems to me, seeing the liabilities of your location and then doing things to reduce those liabilities is the key.
Not just talking about the perfect place where everything will be fine. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4467 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: [Location] Urban vs. Rural
Its not safety, its economics- for most people they can secure a good job in the city. Then there's the side benefit of culture, restaurants, coffee shops, music, diverse community, closeby healthcare, banks, grocery stores, etc.
Just my opinion...but its not urban vs. rural...its urban and rural...both are needed. Rural for food production, urban for manufacturing, trade, markets, education, hospitals, etc. Why the dichotomy?
Couldn't agree with you more thuja. Excellent explanation. It's why we chose a spot on the edge too. For now it's perfect. When things begin to unfold it'll still be ok for awhile too, depending..... but not after the unfolding is complete. Then it'll be a mess in rural areas too. But for now we have nearby schools, our temple is close, periodic cultural events are nice too. Plus the dojo is fairly closeby. Oh, and the gym; can't forget that. And it's all in 30 minutes biking distance. _________________ Got Dharma?
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:34 am Post subject: Re: [Location] Urban vs. Rural
I agree. I've always liked the rural areas. We live in a town of about 9000 on the banks of the Kennebec River. It's a good place to be. Nothing is forever. Even in the 16 years we've been here there have been many changes. Some are actually for the better. There is a great farmer's market here now, downtown's getting tastefully fixed up and there are a bunch of young folks moving in and making things happen. The Empire Grill is the place to hang out, and the movie theatre has been fixed up.
Granted that's a special case because of the political situation, but if you believe power outages may be longer and more common in the near future it's worth taking into account. Big American cities are designed around electrical infrastructure in most cases, and most Americans don't know how to live without electricity. In a future where electricity is not reliable sanitation and sewage treatment is going to be a huge problem for cities, just like it is now in the slums of poor cities in the world. _________________ "Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young
Joined: Jun 02, 2006 Posts: 62 Location: ...over yonder..
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: Re: [Location] Urban vs. Rural
shanny, good point about the cities in regards to electricity and basic services such as water and sewer. I can only imagine. Its nice knowing that where i live i can step out the door drop trouser and fertilize the 75 acres of fertile river valley soil where i live. As Chaparral said about being close to city of about 50,000, I am in full accordance with that. Actually the city proper is about 38,000 not counting surrounding towns. Very progressive in almost all regards yet the country maintains a quality degree of old time conservatism, a good balance if you ask me.
So yes, complete boonies seems like a bad idea just as much as urban core (god that scares me).
Revi, you seem to have it pretty good in all manner of things from reading quite a few of your posts, cheers to you! Maine is a nice place.
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: [Location] Urban vs. Rural
Thanks, cephalotus. It was refreshing to read a "realistic optimist" assessment of post-oil a future. I hope you Germans succeed with the soft transition. Maybe you'll be able to receive more of the South European climate refugees in the coming decades, too, without pushing them onwards to the north...
One minor correction:
cephalotus wrote:
There are will be more than 70 million Germans living (partly or entirely) on governmental support and if things get worse (=expensive), those people could get a problem...
That'll be closer to reality after the energy caused economic crash (at least temporary, until the economy has been rearranged by the government or (less likely) by a die-off).
cephalotus wrote:
Btw, living in a city takes (on average) much less space and energy than living on rural areas.
This is a point I've kept repeating here... it may not apply if you're living in a US city and expect mass starvation and chaos, but in a country that's likely to stay intact politically, everyone not employed in food production will try to live as close to pop centers as possible. Cheaper energy, services, public transport, job opportunities (although average jobs will be something quite different by then). The post-Soviet situation is illustrative in this regard, as already pointed out. _________________ "A devastating error is to set up a political system based on [individual] desire... the best dictatorship would be one where the government prevents any economical growth."
"Only scarcity and effort make life worth living."
-Pentti Linkola
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6580 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: [Location] Urban vs. Rural
I’m thinking the crux of the issue is whether one is better equipped to Earn or Produce.
I’m not disparaging either one, simply pointing out we each have a skill set we must evaluate in light of our assessment of the future. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
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