Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
and forget the US poor, how about almost the entire population of the third world- living subsistence lifestyles and portions succumbing to starvation or being slaughtered in resource wars- they're just stupid and lazy too right? If they only had gotten out of that thatched hut and taken the job as an oil rig operator with Exxon when they were coming through the village. But no, they wanted to sit in the hut and chew on grass sandwiches...stupid lazy third worlder!!
Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 2970 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
thuja wrote:
and forget the US poor, how about almost the entire population of the third world- living subsistence lifestyles and portions succumbing to starvation or being slaughtered in resource wars- they're just stupid and lazy too right? If they only had gotten out of that thatched hut and taken the job as an oil rig operator with Exxon when they were coming through the village. But no, they wanted to sit in the hut and chew on grass sandwiches...stupid lazy third worlder!!
Thank you for saying that! It's hard to understand how we could have poor in america when there is so much opportunity! Just look at your average legal or illegal mexican american. Over my lifetime here is what I have obseved in Texas-They are born into poverty and nearly die tring to get here, work their asses off and become middle class within their lifetime. Here in Dallas, Tx a Mexican who doesn't speak a lick of english can get a job at Mcdonalds or construction at $7 to $15 a hour. When I sold my old truck 3 years ago the guy who bought it did not speak any english and had his wife translate for him. What blew me away was once we struck a deal(and this guy was a tough negotiator) he handed me twenty hundred Dollar bills(money talks-BS walks). Hispanics seem to have a simple motto:Work hard, live simple, be family oriented-sure works for them. In fact in their lifetime they will obtain more wealth in terms of cash and property than your average pretentious and educated Grad student who was born into middle class! _________________ In other words, it's a huge sh*t sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite.-from Full Metal Jacket
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
thuja wrote:
and forget the US poor, how about almost the entire population of the third world- living subsistence lifestyles and portions succumbing to starvation or being slaughtered in resource wars- they're just stupid and lazy too right? If they only had gotten out of that thatched hut and taken the job as an oil rig operator with Exxon when they were coming through the village. But no, they wanted to sit in the hut and chew on grass sandwiches...stupid lazy third worlder!!
This was never about third-world conditions. My point was there are opportunities in America. What you do with them is up to you. If you waste them, then expect the federal government to bail you out, expect resentment.
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
gt1370a wrote:
This was never about third-world conditions. My point was there are opportunities in America. What you do with them is up to you. If you waste them, then expect the federal government to bail you out, expect resentment.
Amazing, you have a system which depends on poor people for the system to work then blame them for being poor.
I'm amazed that people don't comprehend the idea of a pyramid scheme. There has to be a large number of people at the bottom. Can everyone be a millionaire? Can everyone be middle class?
Sure an individual can make it up, but not everyone, otherwise nobody will pump the gas, serve you your burgers, make you a coffee.
And because of the system, you hate the victims, then proudly go to church on Sunday. _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 2970 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
rogerhb wrote:
gt1370a wrote:
This was never about third-world conditions. My point was there are opportunities in America. What you do with them is up to you. If you waste them, then expect the federal government to bail you out, expect resentment.
Amazing, you have a system which depends on poor people for the system to work then blame them for being poor.
I'm amazed that people don't comprehend the idea of a pyramid scheme. There has to be a large number of people at the bottom. Can everyone be a millionaire? Can everyone be middle class?
Sure an individual can make it up, but not everyone, otherwise nobody will pump the gas, serve you your burgers, make you a coffee.
And because of the system, you hate the victims, then proudly go to church on Sunday.
America is full of millionares selling burgers and serving coffee, it's called enturpership. Ever heard of Starbuck's? When was Col.Sanders created Kentucy Fried Chicken he financed it with his social security check. 50 years ago Ray Croc noticed people needed to get their food seved differently thus Mcdonald's. Sam Walton owned a Store in Arkansas and came up with a innovative way of just in time distribution and that's how Ben Franklin stores mophed to Wal-Mart. Regardless of all it's faults this is why America is what is is today based on opportunity, enturpership, and Ingenuity. _________________ In other words, it's a huge sh*t sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite.-from Full Metal Jacket
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
PrairieMule wrote:
Regardless of all it's faults this is why America is what is is today based on opportunity, enturpership, and Ingenuity.
But what I am saying you can not ALL do it, only SOME, some people HAVE to be at the bottom otherwise the SYSTEM does not work. _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 2970 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
Let, me add on to that post. Many of the millionares in America are not innovators or CEO's pulling strings on a pyramid. It can be done with the proper mindset or just plain luck.
MINDSET-Check out the book Millionare Next Door by Thomas Stanley.
LUCK- If you ever come to America go to a Hardware store called The Home Depot and see how these simple folk are so knowledgable and run their tails off. Or ask a secretary at Microsoft Employee if they like their job. It's not because of the goverment, the goverment doesnt offer stock options. Stock options come from Capitalism. _________________ In other words, it's a huge sh*t sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite.-from Full Metal Jacket
Joined: Sep 02, 2005 Posts: 2970 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
rogerhb wrote:
PrairieMule wrote:
Regardless of all it's faults this is why America is what is is today based on opportunity, enturpership, and Ingenuity.
But what I am saying you can not ALL do it, only SOME, some people HAVE to be at the bottom otherwise the SYSTEM does not work.
Roger- do not take this the wrong way, I enjoy your posts-but bullshit. In America a School teacher(which can be compared to slavery) could become a millionare in their lifetime. The folks that dont become millionares are the ones who give in to the dark side of out of control consumerism, live above their means, and fail to adapt. Which is my opinion a bigger problem than Peak oil. To me peak oil is something I take serious but instead moaning and bitching I see(not you) I will do some serious adapting.
Again sorry if I am heavy handed, your pespective on a variety of topics has been intellegent and your opinion has value. _________________ In other words, it's a huge sh*t sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite.-from Full Metal Jacket
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
PrairieMule wrote:
It can be done with the proper mindset or just plain luck.
Think of Amway. Can every one be at the top? No, the system works because of the door-sellers at the bottom hoping to get to the top. Most don't. They get disillusioned and drop out, so they keep on needing more people to feed into the system.
It's a pyramid scheme. It's a ponzi scheme. If you don't accept that then it's pointless debating about the people at the bottom, there is no way, even with the correct mindset that everyone can get to the top. The system is geared that way. That's ignoring the globalisation aspect, there is no way on earth that Americans can compete on an equal footing with Asia unless it involves a movement downwards in living standards. _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
Got to agree with roger here Prairie- We can't all have millionaires- who's going to sweep the floor at night? Who's going to trim the rose bushes on your estate? Is it because they were all stupid and lazy that they didn't get rich? I'll agree that there is a certain amount of potential built into the system that says if you strive hard for a good education, you can certainly join the middle class and if you're lucky, can get rich, even if you started at the bottom.
But if you started in an environment that doesn't reward you for striving for higher education, where you don't have the right connections or trust fund to jump start you in life, the odds are that much harder. Some will succeed, but most won't. That way, you have someone to serve you a whopper at Burger King...works out perfectly...right?
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
rogerhb wrote:
gt1370a wrote:
This was never about third-world conditions. My point was there are opportunities in America. What you do with them is up to you. If you waste them, then expect the federal government to bail you out, expect resentment.
Amazing, you have a system which depends on poor people for the system to work then blame them for being poor.
I'm amazed that people don't comprehend the idea of a pyramid scheme. There has to be a large number of people at the bottom. Can everyone be a millionaire? Can everyone be middle class?
Sure an individual can make it up, but not everyone, otherwise nobody will pump the gas, serve you your burgers, make you a coffee.
And because of the system, you hate the victims, then proudly go to church on Sunday.
What exactly are they "victims" of? And what does church have to do with anything? Surely you're not generalizing, after you guys chastised me for generalizing about the poor. Gee, I guess you're really not more tolerant or open-minded than somebody like me, you just have different categories.
Ah, I'm just giving you a hard time. I know what you mean about the church thing, lot of hypocrites out there. I'm not a church type myself.
But that "victims" thing.... that's really the central point here, is it? You guys think poor people are just victims of a corrupt system? I think it's basically just a natural outcome. Societies will tend to reward individuals who are productive, and "productive" can have different meanings in different societies. Here it's correlated with intelligence and hard work.
Smart, hard-working people float up in the pyramid, lazy and dumb people sink down. There are other variables in there that make it an imperfect correlation, like accidents and sickness and the lottery, but still the correlation is a pretty good one.
And I suppose if this really IS the main point, then there's not much use debating it. I can't see anybody being persuaded to budge on that one.
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
gt1370a wrote:
But that "victims" thing.... that's really the central point here, is it? You guys think poor people are just victims of a corrupt system? I think it's basically just a natural outcome. Societies will tend to reward individuals who are productive, and "productive" can have different meanings in different societies.
A capitalist system does not have to be corrupt to still be a pyramid scheme. By corrupt I mean actual white-collar crime or political kick-backs etc. By victims I mean that the system needs poor people to operate and a large number will not be able to get far from the bottom. Where they are really victims is, as the title of this thread posits, that because of their position in the pyramid they are not respected. _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
rogerhb wrote:
gt1370a wrote:
But that "victims" thing.... that's really the central point here, is it? You guys think poor people are just victims of a corrupt system? I think it's basically just a natural outcome. Societies will tend to reward individuals who are productive, and "productive" can have different meanings in different societies.
A capitalist system does not have to be corrupt to still be a pyramid scheme. By corrupt I mean actual white-collar crime or political kick-backs etc. By victims I mean that the system needs poor people to operate and a large number will not be able to get far from the bottom. Where they are really victims is, as the title of this thread posits, that because of their position in the pyramid they are not respected.
But you think it merits respect because, as you validly point out, "somebody has to do it?" Ok, I guess I can't really argue with that. But I don't think it deserves high pay and benefits, and a government bail out every time something goes wrong. And the feeling that people are "entitled" to that is what causes resentment from people like me, who have to pay for it.
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Americans hate poor people?
gt1370a wrote:
And the feeling that people are "entitled" to that is what causes resentment from people like me, who have to pay for it.
Why don't you have the same resentment towards the government and the corporations who meet exactly the same criteria? _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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