Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 327 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:05 am Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
The UK will definitely be the worst. They only have an R/P ratio of 9 for coal (220 million tonnes), are overpopulated, don't have a good railway system, have high personal and mortgage debt, etc. It's sad, because I really like the Anglo-Saxon culture and had the hopes of living there (I have an EU passport).
Germany is next on my list. Their population is enormous. If Poland is the size of New Mexico, Germany is not much larger (349,000 km2, compared to 304,000 km2 for Poland) yet has twice the population.
Poland and the Ukraine will fare much better: high coal reserves and people are used to getting by with less than in Western Europe (although Poland has higher incomes). A higher percentage of the population works in the agricultural sector (in Poland - about 27%).
Joined: Nov 02, 2005 Posts: 23 Location: Poland/Spain
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:05 am Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
I suggest France.
Quite a populated place but, most of all, we have recently seen how the society reacted when something went wrong. How many thousands of burned cars? The immigrant society simply reacted with violence, and that problem still was nothing comparing to what the oil peak will be.
Spain will be not such a bad place, since it is relatively warm, and it's now, just when the winter begins, that the grass starts to grow and the oranges start to get orange. At least in the south of the country.
My country, Poland, will be also a hell of a place due to the freaking cold. And the Northern pipeline does not seem to bring a good future for us. Although in our case our a-bit-retarded-agriculture will help a lot. _________________ Peak Oil Poland,
Submit your website to multilingual Peak Oil directory!
Joined: Nov 07, 2005 Posts: 12 Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:16 am Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
Well, the question is whether you mean decline in absolute or relative terms. I doubt living conditions after PO in e.g. France, Germany or even UK would ever be worse than in Romania or Ukraine (providing there are no wars or natural disasters), so the answer would be irrelevant.
Therefore, I assume that you mean relative decline.
Joined: Aug 12, 2004 Posts: 1180 Location: England
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:57 am Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
carbuster wrote:
Well, the question is whether you mean decline in absolute or relative terms. I doubt living conditions after PO in e.g. France, Germany or even UK would ever be worse than in Romania or Ukraine (providing there are no wars or natural disasters), so the answer would be irrelevant.
Therefore, I assume that you mean relative decline.
No I think Leaf is suggesting (correct me if I am wrong) a fast crash of the worst kind for Post peak UK.
By this I mean, mass starvation , riots, anarchy and circa 50% die off within a decade. _________________ Peak Oil? crap Happens !
Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 327 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:24 am Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
I don't think that making racial and ethnic minority arguments is a good idea for all of Western Europe. The fact that there wasn't any major Hindu or Pakistani riot in the UK, or a Turkish riot in Germany, or Basque riot in Spain doesn't mean that it can't happen in the future. Also, extremist politicians sometimes crop up in "civilized" countries, such as France (Le Pen), Austria (Haider), etc. If things really turn sour, don't you think that Spaniards will turn to the church for help? I expect radical Catholicism to reemerge in Spain post PO, just as it is already reemerging in Poland (PiS, LPR, etc.) given the country's long-winded 17 % unemployment rate.
Joined: Nov 24, 2005 Posts: 743 Location: The ever shrinking wilds of Norway
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:27 am Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
Monaco, as probably hordes of angry and desperate frenchmen or italians will sack the city to pillage champange and rich-folks meat!
Not in Europe though, but the very worst off probably will be those trapped in research stations in Antarctica. Few or no women, bitterly cold and little to eat.
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:43 am Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
marek wrote:
I don't think that making racial and ethnic minority arguments is a good idea for all of Western Europe. The fact that there wasn't any major Hindu or Pakistani riot in the UK, or a Turkish riot in Germany, or Basque riot in Spain doesn't mean that it can't happen in the future.
There have been plenty of riots in the UK over the dacades. There was major rioting in Bradford, Yorkshire in the summer of 2001 for example. The rioters were south Asian (mostly Pakistani origin I believe).
The recent South Birmingham riots were between Blacks and South Asians.
I had a quick google but didn't find a site with a compilation of UK rioting, but places like Toxteth (Liverpool), Brixton (London), St. Pauls (Bristol), Broadwater Farm (London) come to mind. Those were in the '80s.
A website on the whole history of UK riots would not be small.
(On edit) I found a list of riots:
List of riots
Brixton (in South London) seems to be UK number 1: 1981, 1985, 1995.
Last edited by Andrew_S on Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:45 am Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
This is becoming a bit tiring. All those countries except Romania and Ukraine are in the EU now so I suspect that if TSHTF then we sink or swim together. I'm sure Ukraine will be allowed to keep all its raw materials all for itself even though 500 years of past history tells me otherwise (tongue in cheek). If the whole system breaks down then at least Britain is an island giving her greater stability. Romania is already a craphole so I imagine PO will at least give meaning to their misery.
I also point out that the mild British climate will at least allow people to survive in unheated homes, I'm not sure you can say the same about winter in Ukraine, Poland etc. _________________ www.askaboutenergy.com
Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 327 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:46 am Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
What I meant was that there haven't been simultaneous riots on the French scale. It's obvious that there have been localized riots in the UK happening at regular intervals.
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:55 am Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
Commisioner ... Ukraine is not sharing the goods with the rest of the EU.
Time to make the legals illegals and send them back to Ukraine.
PM to Her Majesty the Queen of England:
Ukraine is celebrating the demise of the UK. They say they have 3 inches of topsoil.
HM the Queen of England: Send those Tridents to make the celebrations more lively. IIRC Plutonium does wonders for the creation of new life forms that can be sustained on 3 inches of topsoil
Comrade Stalin (from Hell)
God-damn it Lenin .... I know I made those Ukranias eat each other during the famine but I did not know that Spongiform Encephalopathies would become so prevalent (points to leaf who is typing away anti-UK posts).
Devil (not the poster, you know who )
Get back to your fire Stalin .... I will deal with the immature ones who engage in doom enhanced masturbation exercises later. _________________ "Nuclear power has long been to the Left what embryonic-stem-cell research is to the Right--irredeemably wrong and a signifier of moral weakness."Esquire Magazine,12/05
The genetic code is commaless and so are my posts.
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
Leaf wrote:
The EU post peak...I am not investing too much stock into thinking it wil hold together. Been talked about before. In a post peak world the scale is going down.
I posted this survey because I am going to do some research on the nation picked ..I already covered the UK..Next maybe I'll study France some more??
I'm split between Netherland-Belguim and France.
As for Romania Ive been there..They will do fine..A stable population good climate esp the Black Sea are. A nice Mt area..they still have oil enough they can cut back and feed theirselve. Romania will do Just fine.
Also I get a kick out of people downing Ukraine. Kiev and lviv are the some of the cleanest..nicest safest most cultural cities Ive been to in Europe. Places like Paris and London I was very disappointed. they were not what I excepected..those 1970's tour books need updated!
The climate of Ukraine is interesting the Crimea would be like North Carolina USA..Kiev would be like New York.
The Ukraine has 3ft thick black top soil excellent for farming!When I farmed in the USA -OH we had about 9 inches of top soil.
France is very well set up: Twice the farm land of the UK with the same population
Power generation mostly Nuclear and Hydro
High speed rail network integrated with Europe - No need for airlines, although it does have a tourist industry with US/Canada
Nuclear weapons
High standard of Health, Education, engineering
The only thing not in their favour is the constant strikes..
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 1190 Location: Zoorope
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: The Worst Large European Nation "post peak oil"
I think we are all in the same s*it. Everybody's crowded here. Anyway, I choosed Germany because of the highest population, no much sea and northern weather, while us in Italy or Spain have better climate for crops.
But anyway, no room to grew enough here too. Let's hope for the fish.
PS (Don't tell anybody, but Greece -but Athens- will be GREAT post peak!!!) _________________ **no english mothertongue**
--------
Objects in the rear view mirror
are closer than they appear.
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