How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: Aug 14, 2004 Posts: 2063 Location: San Diego, Ca.
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:26 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Might as well join the Army, you and your buddies will have all the guns and ammo you'll ever need
What good will it do my family for me to be in a desert 7000 miles away? :D
Quote:
And also guys, i dont think modern weapons are giong to dissapear over night.
Take care of your weapon and it will take care of you! _________________ "Peak oil isn't more than an interesting industry factoid and doesn't have anything to do with the hysterics speculated on ad nauseum around here!" ReserveGrowthRulz
I still think that a cross-bow is a good bet- it can take down a deer if it's a good shot and will almost certainly kill any man with a single shot. I'm not a huge believer in the doom scenario but I am very prepared. _________________ There'll be war, there'll be peace
But one day all things shall cease
All the iron turned to rust
All the proud men turned to dust
So all things time will mend
So this song will end
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3429 Location: California, USA
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:48 pm Post subject:
TWX wins the first round. One free coupon good for a wind generator or a STAR reactor module:-).
Agreed, seige weapons aren't of much use in a defensive situation.
Interesting definition of low vs. high explosives, re. whether or not they need external oxygen to work. I'm used to the definition that says "high explosive" means "high-velocity shock wave." As in, use slow dynamites for heaving action (earthmoving), and high explosives to fracture rock.
Re. chemists: yes, our group has an aspiring chemist, whose knowledge and skills will be of great help to us. Last week we were talking about extracting aspirin-like compounds from willow bark & leaves.
The oldschool English word for "pharmacist" is "chemist." Interesting to see the potential for that usage coming back.
"Where ya' goin, ol' chap?"
"Down to the chemists' shop."
"Oh, what for?"
"A bottle of aspirin extract, something for my blood pressure, and some gunpowder for the rifle."
"Very good. See you 'round the farm!"
Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 434 Location: Berkeley CA
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:07 pm Post subject:
Dustin wrote:
Well, That is Black Powder which is what was used upto around the 1890's. It is dirty, nasty, smells horrible, and worst of all, has much smaller explosion than modern explosives (it is a low explosive meaning it needs oxygen to burn)
Guns today use an explosive which is a derivative and mixture of dinamite. It has no smoke (well very little). It is a high explosive (has everything it needs to burn) and fires a bullet very fast. In short, it cant be made locally unless your survival communittee happens to have a chemist to make it.
not to say black powder is good stuff, but modern weapons are not suited to it. You might look into buying some muzzle loading fire arms and use them
And also guys, i dont think modern weapons are giong to dissapear over night. I think there will be a good century before we get war and famine out of our system. Once SITF, im sure bullets, guns, bombs and tanks are giong to be made for a long time. So dont think 10 years from now, there will be no modern weapons, though being trained in archery or something would be a definate plus.
later
Our bullets are not made out of dynamite mixtures. You must be talking about smokless powder, which is nitrocellulose. Nitrocellulose is made when cellulose(cotton) is treated with a nitrating mixture of sulfuric, and nitric acid, we will see less of those chemicals in post peak. Double base smokless powder still contains a mixture of nitrocellulose, and small amounts of nitroglycerin. This mixture is ideal for complete combustion because it has a perfect oxygen balance.
Low explosive contains it's own oxygen supply, it does not require atmospheric oxygen for it to burn. Low explosives when confined will explode, and not burn. Sure black powder will still serve useful in rocket propellents, a high explosive will just destory the casing of the rocket. _________________ my page:
www.myspace.com/peakoil
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:05 am Post subject: My current stockpile
I have never bought a real weapon in my life and up until now, I didn't think I had any. Then I remembered something, I have a bunch of family heirlooms. That includes 2 cavalry swords which could be sharped if need be, 2 dueling pistols that require black powder, an 11 inch hunting knife, and an infinite supply of very large rocks (I live in New England).
So basically, I'm all set in the weapons department.
Here's the bigger question, what happens to all of the right-wing nutjob militia men in Texas? They will raid the military warehouses when the time comes leaving them with more weapons than...the army. Sorry, I couldn't think of a good metaphor. Anyway, won't they be trying to take from the haves?
Also, if each of you starts your own empire, what stops you from running into eachother's army? I see the militia guys starting there own empires too. This is going to get very crowded, very quickly. Hopefully they die off before they can take over our little homesteads.
An additional point, are you willing to kill another human being rather than risk having someone find out about your bunker? If not, what's the point of buying the WMDs?
Joined: May 31, 2004 Posts: 920 Location: Brno, Czech rep., EU
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:19 pm Post subject:
Lol, yes, antique weapons.. I have old pistol from 18th century, 2 very nice sabres and some german knives and bayonets from WW1 and WW2 .. But I still believe, that my toothbrush will be sufficent for personal defense in post peak world
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