THE Jimmy Carter Thread (merged)

MonteQuest · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:15 pm Post subject:

bump
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jato · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:45 pm Post subject:

Too bad Carter's speech was political suicide.

I was going to write about how Carter could have transformed the USA into being more self sufficient. It was wishful thinking on my part. Unfortunately, Carter showed future presidents what not to say.
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BabyPeanut · Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject:

Adding insult to injury

http://www.kcautv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2972533

gg3 · Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:52 am Post subject:

Keep in mind that submarines are not first-strike weapons, they do not have the accuracy or the C&C capabilities for that. They are deterrence, pure & simple. And a sub with SIGINT capabilities is also a war-preventer: SIGINT can and does make that much of a difference.

Okay, so that marks me as a conservative -an oldschool one not a neocon- who also thinks Carter was one of our greatest Presidents ever. When he was in the Navy he was a nuclear engineer. When Three Mile Island had a partial core-melt, he was on hand, on site, in the control room, talking tech with the plant crew. He had the brains and the technical knowledge to set up an energy policy that was practical and would have been effective.

And how much foreign oil are we importing today....?

But here's what cost him the re-election:

You may remember the Iranian hostage crisis. Coming out of the Vietnam war era we were reluctant to make use of military force, and the armed forces in general were in something of a demoralized condition. What Carter *could have* done but didn't, was tell the Iranian government that it was responsible for getting those hostages out safely, and if it failed to act, it would be considered complicit and therefore at war against the US. Set a deadline, move the aircraft carriers into position, and get ready to rumble.

USA at war against Iran would have produced a rally-round-the-flag effect that would have gotten Carter his second term. Cynical but true.

Instead, a team of advance-men for the Reagan campaign made a secret deal with Iran: Release the hostages at a "convenient" time, and we will supply you with arms, and by the way please divert some of that hardware to the Contras in Nicaragua. It worked: the hostage crisis strung along day after relentless day, with Carter's numbers dropping in the polls, made all the worse by a rescue attempt that failed due to our lack of experience (at the time) with desert warfare. Finally the hostages were released on the very day of Reagan's inauguration.

This is not a conspiracy theory, it is well documented, and I even heard none other than Edwin Meese (Reagan's attorney general) break the news, in detail, in his own words, his own voice, on the radio during Reagan's first term. He broke the news as a form of "damage control" because it was about to come out in the press, and had it come out on its own, the scandal would have been that much bigger.

Now what do you call it when one or more private citizens secretly entreats with a hostile foreign power in a manner that is clearly inimical to the national defense...? The word for that is TREASON.

The ugly fact is that Reagan's advance team committed treason, and in doing so, interfered with the foreign policy capabilities of the United States government at the time, and affected the outcome of the Presidential election. And the second ugly fact is that they got away with it. The whole idea of stealing an election by treason, was so hugely outrageous that the mainstream media didn't even touch it. And yet, the facts were there and are undisputed: a secret arms-for-hostages deal negotiated with a hostile foreign power while Carter was still in office. Twist it or spin it any way you like, it's still treason.

To this add Reagan's popularity, based primarily on his affable personality, but also to a large degree on the fact that he promised us a future without effort, without sacrifices; an endless national spending spree without reservation. In effect, a credit card with no limit. Just like telling children they don't have to eat their vegetables, and can have all the ice cream and lolly-pops they want. Of couse the voters -enough of them anyway- went for it. What child do you know of who will choose spinach over lolly-pops...? What grownup do you know of who will voluntarily choose to turn down the offer of an all-expenses-paid shopping and spending spree?

What surprises me most of all is that Carter has not been more vocal about energy in the past couple of years. All of his forecasts have basically come true with a vengeance, though on a slightly longer timescale due to subsequent oil shocks and recessions. Why the silence? Why doesn't he speak out about this now?

ararboin · Heavy Crude Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Posts: 238

I wonder if anyone's talked to him for the record? Might be interesting if only to get an "I told you so" out of him.

Anyone live in Michigan interested in interviewing him about it? He's going to be at a Habitat for Humanity Build from June 19-24 in Benton Harbor and Detroit. Show up with a tool belt and scruffy work clothes and he might talk to you. Report back, please.

madison · Heavy Crude Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 255

What is he doing these days?

Frank · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject:

http://www.cartercenter.org/default.asp?bFlash=True

Jimmy Carter also supports (actively) Habitat for Humanity projects. There is an annual Jimmy Carter build-day where both he and Rosalynn put on their jeans and work side-by-side with future homeowners.

I think that history will treat him kindly. Two generations from now, our grandchildren will look back and realize how foolish their "ancestors" were.

DomusAlbion · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject:

To be fair to Carter he was right in his desire to wean America from oil imports. I listened to him and acted on his advice. I usually vote Republican now but at that time I voted for Carter.

But don't glorify him just because he was right on the energy issue; that is not what lost him the 1980 election. In truth, he was an ineffective and weak president and man and projected that publicly. An intelligent man; a good man but a poor leader and left no lasting legacy, nor made any lasting changes. It was his bungling of the Iran hostage crisis that cost him the job of president; that and a poor economic showing throughout his first term.
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MonteQuest · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject:

DomusAlbion · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:43 am Post subject:

MonteQuest · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:52 am Post subject:

earthman · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 19, 2005 Posts: 39

Jimmy Carter was ahead of his time and proof that a prersident (or a politician) who is honest will not get re-elected. People don't want to hear the truth. So we voted him and got what we deserved.
Carter's hard work for humanity since his presidency proves what he is made of. He has my respect.
Americans are still as dense as then as evidenced by our last election.
Would that the truth would come out about the Bush administration, the economy, 911, the war in Iraq.
Makes it hard to have any hope at all.

arretium · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Pull your head out

How about a little tongue in check criticism?

Overlyhonest

First back last October I picked up Matthew Savinar book and gained a new and quite unfun perspective on the world.
Today though I came across an essay on energy bulletin. The author took to many liberties for my tastes so I went to his source material “two speeches by President Jimmy Carter” and I am just floored. I was probably out ridding my bike when all this was going down so have never listened to these speeches until today.
I now know that an AMERICAN PRESIDENT saw what was coming, he told the people and tried to implement a plan to prevent it. Most telling he talks about the two different paths we could take and what would happen if we took the easy one. They never taught this in American history….but they will.
Sayings like “reap what you have sown” comes to mind.

Jimmy Carter April 18, 1977
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/filmmore/ps_energy.html

Jimmy Carter July 15, 1979
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/filmmore/ps_crisis.html

PS, I hate to give product endorsements that I do not get paid for but if you are too lazy to read these in their entirety get Text Aloud to read for you. It is free.
http://www.nextup.com/TextAloud/download.html

{Edited by MQ--Or for mp3, go to this link:}

http://millercenter.virginia.edu/scripps/diglibrary/prezspeeches/carter/
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Evltre · Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject:

I'm interested to know from anyone who was around then (I was 2 in 1977) what happened after those speeches? How did people react? Didn't they vote him out pretty quickly?