How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 1190 Location: Zoorope
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:06 am Post subject: The great italian riots (and we're winning...)
I think I'll make a post of this since nobody mentioned it yet.
Something very big is happening in Italy, like those riots in Paris, but energy related. There's a plan to build a superfast train between Italy and France, th great work worthing E 20 billions. To build the luxury superfast railroad (TGV or TAV in italian) they need to make a 54 km (about 30 miles) tunnel under a mountain in Valle di Susa, near Turin. The mountain is radioactive (uranium) and full of asbesto. The millions tons of soil they'll take out the mountain will simply be thrown into an old uranium mine and forgotten.
The job of making the tunnel was won by the company owned by the minister of Public Works (think of it like a sort of local Halliburton), a true billionaire asshole.
Now the people in Valle di Susa are rioting. They occupied the mountain and made a presidium to fight against the railroad (NoTAV movement is called). Thay ask a more sustainable work, like modernizing the actual railroad (which is still under used) and spent all that money over more useful things for better transports. Of course the govt is fighting them, but the bad story is that, of course, the left is against them too... a company owned by left politicians got a part of the job and of the billions.
Politicians of both sides are everyday in TV claiming that "the country desperately need this railroad" (which is totally useless the way it is, believe me).
This is the dirtiest story. People from ValSusa were attacked by police the other night at the presidium, police beated elders, children, priests, journalists, dozens ended at the hospital. There was the chief policeman shouting "kill them all!!!!", a shock and awe operation.
Afetr this, they began the tunnel works.
Today there's a momentary happy end: 50.000 people from all the country went to ValSusa this morning, they fight against the police again and then reconquered the presidium on the mountain. This is a great victory for all of us believing in susteinable investments. Let's hope they can resist until they win.
For more info, just google NOTAV or valsusa. Of course, most will be in italian. _________________ **no english mothertongue**
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Objects in the rear view mirror
are closer than they appear.
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:22 am Post subject: Re: The great italian riots (and we're winning...)
I'm a bit unclear on the argument at hand: is it mainly about the radioactive waste or about the railroad, or both? Where would the opponents rather spend the money? Or would they spend it at all?
Is it just another boondoggle? _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Joined: Feb 25, 2005 Posts: 772 Location: Luton, England
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:46 am Post subject: Re: The great italian riots (and we're winning...)
Quote:
The job of making the tunnel was won by the company owned by the minister of Public Works (think of it like a sort of local Halliburton), a true billionaire asshole.
OMG, that would be funny if was fiction, its so 'in your face' as it were.
I was in Northern Italy in the Spring and I was struck by how politically aware the people seemed to be (compared to UK). I saw an anti globalisation rally (quite a small event) with leaflets on peak oil, sustainability, seed collection / saving. All very interesting.
I assume its more the corruption that has angered the people. Would that be right Barbera or is it more environmental?
Joined: Nov 24, 2005 Posts: 743 Location: The ever shrinking wilds of Norway
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:58 am Post subject: Re: The great italian riots (and we're winning...)
Thanks Lenan!
And what about that Berlusconi prick? He is a psycopath, I am sure of it! From what I understand, he is super-rich and owns large portions of Italian industry and media. Has been in court several times, but always gets away. To me he seems like a Mussolini with brains. Can anyone tell me why he is still in office? Through democracy?
Torjus Gaaren
Last edited by TorrKing on Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 1190 Location: Zoorope
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: The great italian riots (and we're winning...)
Both environment and health concerns, and money wasting.
The people in Valsusa proposed to modernize the actual railroad (which is enough good for the commerce between Italy and France), and spend the money on something really useful for the country.
About the minister: his company simply changed owner when he became minister. The owner now is... his wife.
Yes, I'm ashamed of this!
Another part of the job is in the hand of a company close to the leftist party. Very similar to USA situation, isn't it? Two names, one party I mean.
Berlusconi will go home next spring, we hope. But until then... still damaging the country. And he is Mussolini WITHOUT brain: Mussolini (through a fascist etc.) loved the country and did some things good, but Berlusconi is completely spoiling it thinking only of his money.
EDIT: Of course, nobody in mainstream ever mentions the minister owned company. You can know this on the Internet only.
Also: the railroad is scheduled for the opening in 2020. Can you imagine? _________________ **no english mothertongue**
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Objects in the rear view mirror
are closer than they appear.
Joined: Sep 28, 2005 Posts: 42 Location: Durham, NC USA
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: The great italian riots (and we're winning...)
Leanan wrote:
How is that the minister of public works is allowed to own a company that's bidding on goverment projects?
How is it that the POTUS and his VP are able to direct the world's largest military to invade a sovereign nation for the benefit of their personal portfolios and those of their cronies? Because capitalism is in the end fascism - corporate control of government, and therefore of society. Everything is done in the name of the almighty dollar (or Euro or yen...) The people, the earth, the future be damned.
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: The great italian riots (and we're winning...)
The protests in Val di Susa are on Euronews. It's the theme of the main debate forum. Check it out here (with vids), and have your say:
http://euronews.net/comment
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: The great italian riots (and we're winning...)
Pure NIMBYism, which is why the UK and Europe will ultimately fail, you can't build a mile of anything. From what I know the new High speed line is needed for freight capacity on the other route, which will take 5-20,000 trucks off the alpine roads per day, all running on oil and instead hauled by Nuclear and Hydro power trains.
No doubt they will go and build airports instead - Now that is sustainable..ahem..These are the same people that protest against windfarms, nuclear power stations the lot. And the railway is going in a tunnel!
*shakes head*
PS More Uranium has been thrown into the atmosphere by burning coal than the Nuclear industry is responsible for.
PPS I would have more sympathy for the environmental arguments if the alps weren't criss-crossed by 6 lane highways..
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: The great italian riots (and we're winning...)
Leaf wrote:
Interesting,
On my survey of worst nations post peak oil a few members thought Italy and for the reason you kind of stated Barbra.... Now note we the world still live in good times and look what is happening!! Imagine the people in Italy 10 yrs POST PEAK!!
Going to be very interesting place there in teh yrs ahead.
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