For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: Re: The Canary in the Mineshaft
mos6507 wrote:
yesplease wrote:
Since lower speeds tend to help with safety by default, thanks to the laws of physics, I'm not sure whether or not a NEV is any more dangerous than a bicycle regardless of whether it has a lane or not, or even a car, given how risky most people's behavior in them is.
Bear in mind that a NEV never goes through crash testing and is built like origami in order to get any sort of range out of the crap lead acid batteries that they are still using. So it may disintegrate at least as badly in a 35mph collision as a regular car involved in a freeway-speed accident. That's not even taking into account 3-wheelers where the single wheel is in the front like the Zap which is ultra unstable. I saw a Zap in person and my young daughter looked like she could roll it over with one hand.
I'm all for electric vehicles but NEVs are like the "special olympics" version of the EV.
If NEVs are "special olympics" version of the EV, then what are electric bicycles? They're not only smaller, but as dinky as a NEV may be, a bicycle is worse. That being said, the data shows that the bicycle is one of the safest forms of transportation, while providing less protection in an accident than a NEV. I'm definitely skeptical of claims that NEVs are more dangerous than cars based on their construction, since looking at construction alone clearly doesn't get the whole picture. _________________
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: The Canary in the Mineshaft
BigTex wrote:
mos6507 wrote:
zensui wrote:
BigTex wrote:
(...)
Of course, when neighborhood pets start disappearing, that too would be a canary in the mineshaft. It might even be an actual canary.
Indeed. How much food can be saved if we didn't have pets?
Yeah, just think of all the horsemeat we can free up for human consumption.
I've never understood what was supposed to be wrong with horse meat.
The horse physique looks like it would be good eating if you were hungry.
Maybe it's because horses aren't raised for food, unlike some of their buddies on the farm.
...I was thinking more on money. If someone doesn't need to feed pets (or offspring), has no debts, and doesn't consume much, it's easier to survive on the same income. Keep light, mobile and know the rythm... before, when and after TSHTF. _________________ anagami.net
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: The Canary in the Mineshaft
yesplease wrote:
If NEVs are "special olympics" version of the EV, then what are electric bicycles?
Like I said, it's all about where they are on the road. A bike rides through the side of the road and would not be squished between two cars in a pileup.
yesplease wrote:
I'm definitely skeptical of claims that NEVs are more dangerous than cars based on their construction, since looking at construction alone clearly doesn't get the whole picture.
If they become popular we'll have some statistics to go by. Until then, I'm going by my gut instinct.
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: The Canary in the Mineshaft
I live on a new 2 lane state highway with 8 ft. paved shoulders. It even has "drunk bumps" cut into the edge to let people (talking on cellphones, eating, drinking beer, etc.) know if they stray off their lane onto the shoulder. I hear the tires hittting those bumps all day every day, as drivers wander all over the road.
NO WAY IN HELL WOULD I RIDE A BIKE ON THAT! An EV? You gotta be kidding. It takes a one-ton truck to compete with collision resistance out there.
I have a new bike, and I like to ride, but I'll wait for the idiots to run out of gas before I make a habit of it. Take one of those ultra lightweight jobs out there , and you're going to look like a bug on a windshield.
I think a good canary would be when I feel safe to ride my bike! _________________ Local fix-it guy..
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: The Canary in the Mineshaft
mos6507 wrote:
yesplease wrote:
If NEVs are "special olympics" version of the EV, then what are electric bicycles?
Like I said, it's all about where they are on the road. A bike rides through the side of the road and would not be squished between two cars in a pileup.
The odds of that are quite small statistically. With roughly half of all accidents at intersections being rear end collisions IIRC, which tend to be far less dangerous than side impact collisions, a NEV is still far safer than the average car regardless of how much you feel it is more dangerous.
That being said, there's nothing preventing you from tossing a bunch of batteries in a larger vehicle for far less than an EV retailer would charge you for a smaller vehicle.
mos6507 wrote:
yesplease wrote:
I'm definitely skeptical of claims that NEVs are more dangerous than cars based on their construction, since looking at construction alone clearly doesn't get the whole picture.
If they become popular we'll have some statistics to go by. Until then, I'm going by my gut instinct.
No one said ya have to think about these things logically. Although in many cases the gut instinct is far more dangerous than rational behavior.
patience wrote:
NO WAY IN HELL WOULD I RIDE A BIKE ON THAT! An EV? You gotta be kidding. It takes a one-ton truck to compete with collision resistance out there.
Shoot, I've done worse. 65mph with 1-2ft off the lane at points. 8ft is cake.
patience wrote:
I think a good canary would be when I feel safe to ride my bike!
Or just a measure of an irrational decision process. Whether or not you feel safe doesn't make you any more or less safe, unless of course how safe you feel alters your behavior when riding. _________________
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: The Canary in the Mineshaft
When ABC NEws asks if its the end of an era. No more roadtrips, affordable airtravel, and also..."those who still have jobs" might be moving out of the suburbs to the cities because of the high price of gas.
This reminds me of those truck driver protests.
My reply would be if you're in a line of business that is not making money because of high fuel costs:
regional airlines, long haul trucking, shrimp fisherman
etc... ----> it's time to file for bankruptcy
This is what we call "demand destruction"
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: The Canary in the Mineshaft
At the market nearest my apt when we lived in Paris, one shop only sold horse meat. I was told that the majority of the meat came from the US.
Also, the way that the Belgians make such delicious French Fries is the fact that they are traditionally fried in horse fat. Really tasty, I must say! I like horses as much as the next gal, but, if, after they die, they might as well be used for food.
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: Why make up lies to tell a story
mos6507 wrote:
yesplease wrote:
That's not even taking into account 3-wheelers where the single wheel is in the front like the Zap which is ultra unstable. I saw a Zap in person and my young daughter looked like she could roll it over with one hand.
I'm all for electric vehicles but NEVs are like the "special olympics" version of the EV.
Why Make up lies? Why? You think it helps give your story some substance? WRONG! It just kills any argument or chance of being considered having any intelligence at all....
I have a ZAP Truck and a ZAP sedan... TIP HELL.. It ways 1800 lbs empty. Your daughter must be what??? 4000 lbs, man put her on a diet...
My wife and I drive everywhere in our ZAP Xebra 3 wheelers. #1 your not driving 75 mph. Top speed 40 and we pretty much stick to back streets and side roads. It's quieter, peaceful and more efficient on power. Just how many wrecks are you in? Just how many LIFE ending wrecks are on 35MPH roads? Come on.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3343 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Why make up lies to tell a story
Zapmanj wrote:
Why Make up lies? Why? You think it helps give your story some substance? WRONG! It just kills any argument or chance of being considered having any intelligence at all....
I have a ZAP Truck and a ZAP sedan... TIP HELL.. It ways 1800 lbs empty. Your daughter must be what??? 4000 lbs, man put her on a diet...
My wife and I drive everywhere in our ZAP Xebra 3 wheelers. #1 your not driving 75 mph. Top speed 40 and we pretty much stick to back streets and side roads. It's quieter, peaceful and more efficient on power. Just how many wrecks are you in? Just how many LIFE ending wrecks are on 35MPH roads? Come on.
Zapmanj, your response And personal attacks on the family members of posters are Totally Inappropriate. As a new poster, I would suggest you reconsider your response. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Why make up lies to tell a story
Ferretlover wrote:
Zapmanj, your response And personal attacks on the family members of posters are Totally Inappropriate. As a new poster, I would suggest you reconsider your response.
That's ok. He's just trying to justify his purchase. I would expect Zap owners to be a little eccentric. I respect the fact he likes his vehicle. I think he's just a very rare exception. It's easy to get someone excited about the Tesla, Volt, iMiev, or even the Aptera (which is a love it or hate it design). But it's really hard to get excited about lead-acid NEVs that seem to uphold all the bad stereotypes of EVs. Joe sixpack will drive them only if they have no other alternative. Most would be better off converting an old VW where you'd at least be able to legally get onto the freeway. _________________ Peak oil is sort of like a mental Everlasting Gobstopper, except it tastes like ass and you can't get it out of your mouth.
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: Re: Why make up lies to tell a story
mos6507 wrote:
Ferretlover wrote:
Zapmanj, your response And personal attacks on the family members of posters are Totally Inappropriate. As a new poster, I would suggest you reconsider your response.
That's ok. He's just trying to justify his purchase. I would expect Zap owners to be a little eccentric.
Xebra Electric Sedan
MSRP: $11,700
Speed: Up to 40 mph
Range: Up to 25 miles per charge
//
2008 Toyota Yaris
MSRP: $11,550
Speed: Up to 120 mph
Range: Up to 310 miles on a full tank of dinosaur juice
//
Just a "little eccentric"???
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Although in many cases the gut instinct is far more dangerous than rational behavior.
