Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject: THE American Form of Government Thread (merged)
It is not for me to pass judgement on Pres. Bush. I am not American. But what I would like to know is: Is it possible to change the administration mid-term?
In non-presidential democracies, if a vote of "no confidence" succedes on the floor of the house then a new election is held. It doesn't appear so in the USA.
Joined: Apr 27, 2005 Posts: 153 Location: OHIO, USA
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: In practice.... COULD America change it's gvmt?
hanrahan wrote:
It is not for me to pass judgement on Pres. Bush. I am not American. But what I would like to know is: Is it possible to change the administration mid-term?
In non-presidential democracies, if a vote of "no confidence" succedes on the floor of the house then a new election is held. It doesn't appear so in the USA.
If he dies or is removed from office, Cheney becomes president.
Joined: Aug 12, 2005 Posts: 321 Location: Arlington, VA
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: In practice.... COULD America change it's gvmt?
It would probably be more difficult to get a US administration out of office mid-term than it is places like the Ukraine or Chechnya. Strong governments don't fall, they can only crumble within. And given that the US is one political party away from a dictatorship I'm not sure what good a revolt would do.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: In practice.... COULD America change it's gvmt?
falser wrote:
It would probably be more difficult to get a US administration out of office mid-term than it is places like the Ukraine or Chechnya. Strong governments don't fall, they can only crumble within. And given that the US is one political party away from a dictatorship I'm not sure what good a revolt would do
This drives me crazy, you are already in a dictatorship. Neither of BushCo.'s elections where proper. _________________ Gravity is not a force, it is a boundary layer.
Everything is coincident.
Love: the state of suspended anticipation.
To get any appreciable distance from the Earth in
a sensible amount of time, you must lie.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: In practice.... COULD America change it's gvmt?
In theory, it's written into the constitution. In practice, no one seems to be taking Thomas Jefferson up on the idea, with his trees and blood and so on and so forth.
My guess is that, back when the rules (constituion) were written by well intentioned folk, socio-political-economic theory wasn't as advanced as it is today. What we end up with is a group of people (leeches) who are more advanced in said theory taking advantage of the ignorance and short-sightedness of the past. I could be wrong too: maybe the constitution was written to appear acceptable to common folk while looking like swiss cheese to manipulative types.
Personally, I get antsy and wonder, "why the Fark isn't anything happening yet and will it be too late by the time something does happen" but then I settle and decide that this is the way of nature... Kind of the way the little ripples on water can coalesce and create a larger wave. It's just a matter of timing and patience before a way of thinking is reverberated into a deafening boom. Seen any ripples lately?
As far as elections and impeachments are concerned, keep your bets low.
Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 293 Location: San Jose, CA
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: In practice.... COULD America change it's gvmt?
hanrahan wrote:
It is not for me to pass judgement on Pres. Bush. I am not American. But what I would like to know is: Is it possible to change the administration mid-term?
In non-presidential democracies, if a vote of "no confidence" succedes on the floor of the house then a new election is held. It doesn't appear so in the USA.
We have something similiar, called a recall election. I don't think it's ever been used on a federal level, but it's how we got rid of Governor Gray Davis in California in 2003, and replaced him with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Quote:
A recall election is a procedure by which voters can remove an elected official from office. Along with the initiative and referendum, it was one of the major electoral reforms advocated by leaders of the Progressive movement in the United States during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
The movement in California was spearheaded by then-Governor Hiram Johnson as a "precautionary measure by which a recalcitrant official can be removed". It was instituted as a way for the populace to fight back against political corruption and the powerful railroads and banks, which had enormous influence on state governments.
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4422 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: In practice.... COULD America change it's gvmt?
The American People could, in theory, kick out 7 Republicans from the Senate and replace them with liberal Democrats.
This would shift the balance of power from the GOP to the leftwing of the Democratic party creating a 52-47 Senate. Bernie Sanders would probably replace the independent, Jeffords. Both men are basically communists so the vote is solidly with the far left anyway.
The point is that it would be possible to shift one of the houses of government to the other party in 2006.
The House of Representatives on the other hand, will still be dominated by Republicans after the 2006 election because its basically a corrupt organization that almost ensures continued election success for the incumbent because of crafty redistricting schemes.
(Don't believe me on the last one? Look at the Congressional map of Alabama ) _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: Apr 27, 2005 Posts: 153 Location: OHIO, USA
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: In practice.... COULD America change it's gvmt?
Tyler_JC wrote:
The American People could, in theory, kick out 7 Republicans from the Senate and replace them with liberal Democrats.
This would shift the balance of power from the GOP to the leftwing of the Democratic party creating a 52-47 Senate. Bernie Sanders would probably replace the independent, Jeffords. Both men are basically communists so the vote is solidly with the far left anyway.
The point is that it would be possible to shift one of the houses of government to the other party in 2006.
The House of Representatives on the other hand, will still be dominated by Republicans after the 2006 election because its basically a corrupt organization that almost ensures continued election success for the incumbent because of crafty redistricting schemes.
(Don't believe me on the last one? Look at the Congressional map of Alabama )
The 2006 class of Senators already is mostly Democrats. They'd be hard pressed to win 7 seats. I think the Ohio election in my district last month indicates that perhaps Democrats can pick up some seats in 2006 in the House. I think they will gain quite a number of seats in the House.
Speaking of that Alabama map, I've been in Huntsville a lot this summer (right now) and I can't believe that the district is Democrat based on the people I've met.
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4422 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: In practice.... COULD America change it's gvmt?
BitterSweetCrude wrote:
The 2006 class of Senators already is mostly Democrats. They'd be hard pressed to win 7 seats. I think the Ohio election in my district last month indicates that perhaps Democrats can pick up some seats in 2006 in the House. I think they will gain quite a number of seats in the House.
Speaking of that Alabama map, I've been in Huntsville a lot this summer (right now) and I can't believe that the district is Democrat based on the people I've met.
Granted it is mostly Democrats, I'm saying that if the Republicans lose BIG, the most they could lose is 7 seats. It would be very difficult, but not totally outside of the realm of possibility.
Regaining 2 or 3 seats is far more likely.
And Alabama has some of the strangest districts in the country. Most of it is to make an almost totally black district with lots of mostly white districts around it. This hands the Democrats a seat or two, while making sure that the Republicans are able to hang on to the other 5 without too much trouble. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Posts: 1647 Location: Davis, California
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:25 am Post subject: Re: In practice.... COULD America change it's gvmt?
Vote for whoever you want, both parties are essentially the same. Outside of maybe 2 issues, Democrats = Republicans. _________________ Joseph Stalin "It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. "
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3428 Location: California, USA
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:38 am Post subject: Re: In practice.... COULD America change it's gvmt?
Consider how things would be different if Al Gore had won in 2000.
For one thing, we'd have stayed the course in Afghanistan and not gotten lied into a war of choice in Iraq. We would not have a FEMA director whose last job was as a lawyer for an Arabian Horse breeders' association (from which he was fired due to financial improprieties). We would not be in the position of having most of the world distrusting us when they're not laughing at us.
Shortly after 9/11 I was talking with a friend in the military. Said I, "Thank God we have a Republican administration! Even though Gore would have been better on climate change, we need Republicans in time of war!"
He looked at me like I was crazy. Said he, "You don't know what you're talking about. The troops have a nickname for Bush. They call him the Deserter-in-Chief." And he proceeded to fill me in on Bush's disgraceful record.
"But!," I objected, "He knows how to appoint smart and capable people..."
"Like hell," my friend said, "we have another nickname for the people who are running the Pentagon. We call them The Theoreticians." And he proceeded to explain *that* to me.
So a few years go by, and now we have too-little-too-late in Iraq, and more of the same in Louisiana, and the pattern has become clear. These people are utterly incompetent. And beyond that, they're corrupt as hell.
National recall? Wonderful idea! Impeachment? Sure, wait until prosecutor Fitzgerald comes out with indictments over the Rove/Plame affair.
What we need right now is a Colin Powell or a Wesley Clark. Either of those two would get my vote in two seconds flat.
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:40 am Post subject: Re: In practice.... COULD America change it's gvmt?
Grafitti on a station wall the morning after an election in London -
WHOEVER YOU VOTED FOR THE GOVERNMENT GOT IN
Some people just have no reticence . . . .
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