Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2257 Location: Arkansas
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
A couple of EU embassies were burned in Syria over this cartoon crisis.
Yahoo News
What is the public reaction to the burnings of the embassies and the Muslim anger over the cartoons? Specifically, how likely is it that the Muslim reaction would generate EU public support for a possible military action against Iran and or Syria?
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
I think if these events have any effect they will rather influence internal policy than foreign policy, i.e. how European countries treat immigration and integration.
It is indeed sort of a watershed event that many European citizens realize how little integration has worked, and they are worried about the parallel societies. If this exacerbates, it will lead to a domestic crackdown on muslim immigrants.
But I think it is highly unlikely that any European country except maybe the UK actively supports another military adventure.
No government could afford to order European soldiers to die in such actions, they would never ever be reelected. _________________ "Democracy means the opportunity to be everyone's slave."
Karl Kraus
Last edited by Free on Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Nov 01, 2005 Posts: 846 Location: Euro high horse bastard on the run
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
There is a wide ranging debate now. Some people within a particular nation are focusing on the freedom of free speach, others are urging for apology in order not to damage the business side of the equation. Because some of the ME guys envoked fatva on EU (Danish) imports to Egypt, Syriana already.
I think that at the moment the public is equally horrified about the prospect of Iran having nukes on one hand and further US actions in the region on the other..
However, the governments are likely to play with the US afterall on the condition that they will get some leftovers from the party aka oil&gas after attacking Iran..
The public opinion means bullshit nowadays be it in the US or EU we are entering a new era here, people will trade off their freedoms for "energy security" and economic growth any minute. That recent energy lesson from Russia revealed some interesting undercurrents in both the euro and national politics. _________________ DOOMerotron: at all-time high [8.1] out of 10..
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
It seems to take an awful lot to get people to go to war these days.
Iran and Syria are actively involved in Iraq but the US seems to want more before it will invade its foes.
The increasingly unChristian EU is taking a leaf from the Good Book and just turning the other cheek.
In bygone times it would have been a gun boat flotilla, bombardment of the capital and kidnap of the ruler until they jolly well stopped doing whatever it was we didn't appreciate.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
JayBee wrote:
In bygone times it would have been a gun boat flotilla, bombardment of the capital and kidnap of the ruler until they jolly well stopped doing whatever it was we didn't appreciate.
I miss the Good Old Days.
Leonard Sachs. Wasn't he great!
You mean the good old days when wars claimed entire generations of young men. Be carefull what you wish for because it just might come true. When energy supplies truely begin to colapse to the point where the masses are starving at home the gloves will come off and no one will care about the colateral damage caused by nuking a few Muslim cities off the face of the earth.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
Reading the reactions of the public back at home in Finland, I hear voices of support for Danish economy, and anger at Muslim countries interfering with their internal affairs, but certainly no calls for war.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
seahorse wrote:
What is the public reaction to the burnings of the embassies and the Muslim anger over the cartoons?
As a EU citizen, my take on things are those expressed by Hugh Fitzgerald of Jihad Watch:
Quote:
Why should Muslims, if triumphant and therefore encouraged, decide to stop with those mild cartoons, not one of which comes close to the routine viciousness of the Arab press? Why not protest all radio shows that have music. The Nazis banned jazz as "Judeo-black" music. Muslims know that music is a Bad Thing. Despite that ban, there is folk music, developed not because but in spite of Islam. Yet whenever possible, fanatical Muslims have attacked musicians. The (often Berber) singers of Rai in Algeria have been murdered. Wedding-singers in Afghanistan have been forbidden to practice their craft.
Or why not demand now that "Islam is here to stay" and is "part of Europe" (as Tariq Ramadan keeps telling us -- as he did on the BBC last night, refusing to denounce the protests and simply saying that he had counselled Muslims, who were "understandably" outraged, for now to use the cleverest methods of protest), that the sculptures in the Louvre and the Uffizi be destroyed, or at least permanently stored, because they offend Muslims, and one wouldn't want little Muslim children, taken by their teacher on a field-trip to a museum, to have to have their eyes exposed to sculpture. It would offend against their religion.
And the same is true for paintings of humans or other living creatures. An offense that is rank. So take those paintings down. Yes, landscapes can stay. Views of the Thames, Turnerian skies, Monet's water-lilies, that's okay, you Infidels can keep those. See how big-heared and tolerant we Muslims are? Just don't offend us, and everything will be okay.
I could go on, and on. It's the future. Inevitable, unless somethinig is done to halt entirely the March of Islam, a mere matter of negligent immigration polices, mad welfare policies, crazed cultural policies, and a refusal to do what at allmost any moment in the intelligent past would have certainly been done, or at least talked about.
Read up on Masaryk and Benes, and the Benes Decree(s). Ask yourself at what point, and in what way, a country or a people or a civilization has a right to recognize a threat to its continued existence, and to remove that threat from its midst? Always? Never? What constitutes such a threat, and why do most of us think that given the evidence, the Czechs had a right, and were not wrong, in the principle of removing Sudeten Germans after the Czech experience before and during World War II? And at the time, Germany lay in ruins, and there was no conceivable threat from those Sudeten Germans.
Is there a threat to the laws, customs, manners, understandings, well-being of the indigenous Infidels of Western Europe, from their Muslim populations, or isn't there? Can it all be worked out, can they be successfully integrated without doing violence to those laws, customs, manners, understandings?
Here is an observation:
The presence of large numbers of Muslims within Western Europe has created a situation that is far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous for the indigenous Infidels, and for non-Muslim immigrants as well, than would otherwise be, were those Muslims not present in such numbers.
Is it true in England, France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany -- or is it false?
True, or False?"
Hugh.
True, Hugh. In order to avoid further encroachment and subversion, our immigration policies will need to be changed.
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 1195 Location: Zoorope
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
Italian president: condemned cartoons against any religion.
Italian politicians: Berlusconi wins, Prodi wins, no Berlusconi wins, no Prodi wins and so on.
Italian people: is that girl in Big Brother a transexual?
Me: another american psy-op to push us into another war.
_________________ **no english mothertongue**
--------
Objects in the rear view mirror
are closer than they appear.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
I'm sorry to see how many here appear to have fallen for the predictable outcome of a propaganda ploy by the xenophobic right in publishing and re-publishing the intentionally offensive cartoons.
The notion of invading Iran as a response to an embassy being burned as a result is not merely pathetic, it is juvenile.
The notion of blaming the religion of Islam for the actions of a few is plainly absurd, and brings nothing but discredit on its promoter.
Yet more absurd is the delusion of an absolute right of free speech - or are there members who claim, or actively seek, a right to promote paedophilia, heroin addiction, or contract killing ? Just try it . . . .
Do try to get it through your heads -
The right of free speech is balanced by a duty of care for the listener - both on this site and in the media.
We have no "right" whatsoever to promote insults to other's religions. _________________ "The best of conservation . . . is written not with a pen but with an axe."
(from "A Sand County Almanac" by Aldo Leopold, 1948.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
backstop wrote:
I'm sorry to see how many here appear to have fallen for the predictable outcome of a propaganda ploy by the xenophobic right in publishing and re-publishing the intentionally offensive cartoons.
The notion of invading Iran as a response to an embassy being burned as a result is not merely pathetic, it is juvenile.
The notion of blaming the religion of Islam for the actions of a few is plainly absurd, and brings nothing but discredit on its promoter.
Yet more absurd is the delusion of an absolute right of free speech - or are there members who claim, or actively seek, a right to promote paedophilia, heroin addiction, or contract killing ? Just try it . . . .
Do try to get it through your heads -
The right of free speech is balanced by a duty of care for the listener - both on this site and in the media.
We have no "right" whatsoever to promote insults to other's religions.
Oh Please! As a Christian, how many times have I seen Jesus characitured, defaced, vilified, etc. I don't go around burning embassies and asking for infidels to be slaughtered.
Islam is all about Fatwas and calls for mass murder by imams and commoners alike, the trampling of human and civil rights across their sphere of influence, the traffic in human slavery, public executions and other sordid goings on.
I do blame Islam, simply because there is no outcry against the "few".
Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2257 Location: Arkansas
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
Before everyone gets sidetracked on arguing about free speech,
I'm trying to figure out how the Muslin reaction to the cartoons will effect EU politics. This isn't a free speech debate. I wonder how this chain of reactions, overreactions will play out politically regarding Iran, Syria, etc.
I hope the European members or any members from anywhere else will let us know how the public is reacting to this cartoon chain of events and how this will ultimately effect peak oil issues, like possible sanctions against Iran etc.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
backstop wrote:
Do try to get it through your heads -
The right of free speech is balanced by a duty of care for the listener - both on this site and in the media.
We have no "right" whatsoever to promote insults to other's religions.
Sorry, I cannot equate the satire of a cartoonist pointing out the obvious absurdity of a "religious" mode of suicide bombings with hatred toward Islam. Maybe the fact that these cartoons actually had some effect on people's attitude played a far greater part in the animosity than the fact they depicted Mohammed. In society we all see things that revolt our sensibilities. I am sure many evangelististic Protestants revile seeing statues of St. Mary in front of the Catholic Church which claims to be Christian. Likeise, the atheist will see that same Protestant placing his hands on the Bible, giving it a transcendental honour, and be disgusted that anyone should venerate a book. He may even make jokes or cartoons about that. He may even burn a bible if he chooses. That is the way society works, we tolerate those who look down on our belief systems. We hold our noses and focus on the real stuff in life.
What I cannot tolerate is the sight of crowds of people carrying signs calling for beheading and dismemberment of other people. That is the true obscenity in anyone's book. Those are the people should be charged with hate crimes for advocating physical harm and death to others.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: What is EU public reaction to burning embassies?
I just heard on the local radio here in Cork (Ireland) about how an elderly lady living in the city was told by the local council to remove a statue of the three little pigs from her window because a Muslim family across the road said it offended them. The sad thing is that she did remove it.
What do I think about EU embassies being burned? Killing the goose that laid the golden egg springs to mind. The EU is the biggest benefactor to the middle east in the world. It has championed the cause of the Palestinians (although to no great effect).
Personally, although I believe in a god, I believe religion to be the greatest single cause of warfare and destruction in human history. I do at some time in the near future, see a violent clash between Islam and Christianity. I like to solve problems with people over a glass of 12 year old jameson Irish whiskey - this is not an option with teetotaller Muslims. I just hope that my problems with them don't have to be solved with my 7.62mm general purpose machine gun !!! _________________ www.askaboutenergy.com
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