How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Conquering oil addiction
Revi wrote:
Are you using capitalism or jevon's paradox as an excuse for not doing anything? Should we just lie on the ground and wait for the world to end? Efficiency doesn't hurt. You just use less. We are clever monkeys. We can figure this out! It just looks hopeless if you aren't willing to try.
I have spent the last 31 years of my life on the front lines of doing something about it. But I am realistic about viable options.
Under our current world paradigm and economic system, conservation and increased efficiency is almost meaningless to address our energy problems. This is not to say we shouldn't, but that our expectations for peak oil mitigation should not be very high, especially if we can't get everyone to do it. Hint hint... Chindia.
When we build our civilization around what the earth can sustainably supply and not upon what we demand, then my tune might change.
Sure, we can figure it out, but we won't accept the solutions as reasonable: Population reduction, restricted per capita energy consumption, a shift to renewables energies, and a continuously powering down of all human actvities for decades until we reach the most optimally sustainable equillibrium with our ecosystem.
No, we should not lie down, but we should embrace solutions that have some longevity.
Never happen, you say. Therein lies my inability to be sanguine about Peak oil. We will not go quietly into the dark night. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Conquering oil addiction
Doly wrote:
MonteQuest wrote:
It's capitalism or a habitable planet -- you can't have both
Maybe - but what alternative to capitalism do you suggest?
Limited capitalism. Only allowing sustainable goods and services to be brought to market. No externalized costs. Pay as you go.
Environmental capacity (sustainable supply) would determine production, not demand.
Smacks of socialism, I know. But if it is the earth doing the dictating of limits and not man's ideology, then I am ok with that. _________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Conquering oil addiction
I think we have a few more years to use the excess energy in fossil fuels to set ourselves up for a low energy future. For example: We have put solar hot water on our house now so that when peak oil hits we spend less to heat hot water. We probably won't be able to affford it later. The way I see it is like getting ready for a storm before it happens. Once the storm hits, forget it. All you can do is hunker down.
As I said before, I don't have the influence to take on the whole capitalist system. It might go down, but I hope that the solar panel manufacturers and smart capitalists don't go down with it! It'll be a lot worse to live in a world without some hot water! Our tank got to over 100 degrees yesterday, even though the temp outside didn't even get over 20 degrees farenheit! Thank god for that big fusion reactor 8 minutes away! They can't raise the price of sunlight!
All times are GMT - 6 Hours Goto page Previous1, 2
Page 2 of 2
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
