Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 3901 Location: In a van down by the river
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
FalconFurry, that is not the Feds place,
The fact is this all has to unwind there is no way around it. Home prices have to fall, they have gone well past any sustainable level.
We all know what is coming, and what sustainable is going to mean in the future.
Just realize that the moneyed interests are making their grab for power now and that we are going to have to lick their boots because we did nothing.
Joined: Oct 23, 2004 Posts: 5891 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
Eli wrote:
FalconFurry, that is not the Feds place,
The fact is this all has to unwind there is no way around it. Home prices have to fall, they have gone well past any sustainable level.
We all know what is coming, and what sustainable is going to mean in the future.
Just realize that the moneyed interests are making their grab for power now and that we are going to have to lick their boots because we did nothing.
If found the Fed’s unwillingness to describe what assets were pledged by Bear Stearns as collateral as disturbing. They only said they were mortgage related instruments, which I assume means derivatives. But the most disturbing part is not what they actually are, which is bad enough, but that the Fed is not even admitting to valuation markdowns that could be a significant portion of the $30 billion agreement.
Nowhere in government or business do you get to hide $30 billion losses legally. The Fed wants the best of both worlds – the right to control US currency but at the same time the right to operate in secrecy and spending real money of taxpayers. Yes even the Treasury Secretary stated within the last day that the BS losses would be a direct loss of tax revenue.
Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 3901 Location: In a van down by the river
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
Yeah Dantes it is disturbing to say the least. We don't know what they are hiding also I read that the Fed or the Treasury where saying that they don't have some of the documents that give details of the deal. KD makes a good point that all these bail outs are always more expensive than they say they will be.
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
Big government set to jumpstart housing market with $10,000 tax credit.
Quote:
House lawmakers propose home-buyer tax credit
By Amy Hoak, MarketWatch
Last update: 3:30 p.m. EDT April 2, 2008
CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- Home buyers would get a $10,000 tax credit for their purchase under a bipartisan House bill proposed on Wednesday.
The bill, a response to the sluggish housing industry and its drag on the overall economy, was unveiled by Reps. Vito Fossella, R-N.Y., and Bill Pascrell, D-N.J. The temporary credit would apply only to those planning to live in the home and could only be claimed by taxpayers once, making speculators and flippers ineligible for the perk.
...
As usual, no relief for true homeowners, nor renters. _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
Quote:
Rep. Ron Paul: "These past few weeks have provided an unfortunate opportunity to discuss inflation. The dollar index has reached new all-time lows. The total money supply, M3, as calculated by private sources, is growing at a disturbing 17% rate. The Fed is pumping dollars into the economy at an alarming rate. Just recently the Fed announced new loan auctions totaling $100 billion. That is new money created from thin air. If these money auctions, combined with the bailout of Bear Stearns, continue to be the trend, we are in for some economic stormy weather. The explanation lies in understanding the basics of money, and why it is dangerous to give government and big banks control over it."
There is massive money creation going on, but in spite of that, we are still seeing horrendous liquidity problems and a completely frozen credit market. Somewhere, out there in financial land, is something like a huge money black hole, and it is sucking the world dry!
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
emersonbiggins wrote:
Big government set to jumpstart housing market with $10,000 tax credit.
THIS!
It should be obvious to everyone that the gov and the bankers do not want asset deflation and the unwind to occur. Cost inflation for the middle class and responsible peoples in particular be damned. They say it with every Fed meeting. "We are monitoring inflation risks". The only inflation risk they are monitoring is WAGE inflation. They mean to make everything unaffordable to the middle class and thus destroy it.
Advice: If you get a "stimulus" check, buy a rifle. At least you will sleep at night knowing the gov just payed to arm the citizens even more than they already are. _________________ -Dac
Winners never quit and quiters never win, but those that never win and never quit are idiots.
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6388 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
shortonoil wrote:
...Somewhere, out there in financial land, is something like a huge money black hole, and it is sucking the world dry!
Helluva point, short. Where is it all going? _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 3901 Location: In a van down by the river
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
That money is going to the bank debt. They still are holding paper that is not trading. This paper in the trillions used move used to have value, the banks used to count it as an asset and lend against it now that has all stopped.
Actually I think we are entering the third wave in this crisis and it is all going to come down. The consumer has to be cut off and it is going to come back to the banks again.
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
Iaato wrote:
These are good words, Dr. The Fed will keep the stock market from crashing, if today is any demonstration of their power. If they pump enough money in, we could get quite the bump.
Thanks, Iaato. The Fed is indeed putting out stock market fires with evey bucket of water they've got. But I'm afraid over the next six months they're going to encounter more fires than they can handle.
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
drgoodword wrote:
Thanks, Iaato. The Fed is indeed putting out stock market fires with evey bucket of water they've got. But I'm afraid over the next six months they're going to encounter more fires than they can handle.
Fear not, as Bernanke himself said "A determined government can always find a way to create inflation"
Fed take over of regulation
Congress $10K bailout
Bush's $600 Stimulus
JP Morgan Loan default rebilling
Fed's TAF and TSAF
All products of the government's determination to hide the banks worthless paper. When the FED runs out of buckets to put out the fires, all they have to do is pick a few letters of the Alphabet and print out more buckets.
All the while, all the American public will do is hold out their hands and bleat for more; and they will get it. Lots of it! _________________ Angry yet?
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
Congress working hard for your NAHB's money. (emphasis mine)
Quote:
$15B housing fix gets fast-tracked by Senate
Democrats and Republicans agree to compromise on bill aimed at averting foreclosures and helping those hurt in housing crisis.
...
Help for troubled borrowers trying to refinance: The bill lets states offer $10 billion in tax-free municipal bonds, the proceeds of which would be used to subsidize mortgage refinancing for subprime borrowers trying to get out of unaffordable loans.
...
New property tax deduction: For the 28.3 million homeowners who take the standard deduction on their federal tax return, the bill would allow them to take a second standard deduction for the property tax they pay. The new standard property tax deduction will be $500 for single filers and $1,000 for couples filing jointly.
...
Bigger tax break for homebuilders and other businesses: The bill would expand the so-called net operating loss carryback. The provision would extend to four years from two the time company may apply its 2008 and 2009 losses to past tax bills.
...
CNN _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Joined: Mar 18, 2005 Posts: 2616 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
I know this isn't specifically "housing"...but I just can't get myself to believe this!
Quote:
A California company has developed a device that allows drivers to pay as they go, sort of. The device alert drivers when a car payment is due and won’t let the car start if a payment is late.
Link _________________ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 999 Location: As close as I can get to the beginning of the pipe.
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
That device struck me too, Ron. Big brother comes to your garage. He is making inroads everywhere at a furious pace.
We could keep this on topic, though. How can the mortgage companies create a similar device for houses where the debtor doesn't pay the mortgage? Special locking doors that lock you out if your payment is overdue?
I give it 6 months. _________________ "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis
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