Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
smallpoxgirl wrote:
TreeFarmer wrote:
Student loan debt is very hard to get out of if you are the borrower. The law was changed a few years ago so that now student loan debt stays with you after bankruptcy. Therefore, I would think that this kind of debt would have value, after all, as long as you live they can keep coming after you for the $.
It's not just that. If you're in default on student loans, most states will refuse to give you licenses. In some states that means things like a medical license, a dental license, or an electrician's license. In Montana, they will take away your driver's license if you default on student loans.
How does the state expect the borrower to pay back the loan if they deny them the means to make a living? Doesn't make much sense. The state would be better off garnishing wages.
Either way student loan debt is going to be the next big default crisis. We are headed into a big recession/depression with few jobs that require big educations leaving students with no hope of getting out of debt. Student loan debt is the worst debt to have. Got an oversized mortgage you can't afford...no problem, just send a little jingle mail to the bank. Got a car payment and maxed credit cards...no problem, just hand over the stuff to the repo man when the time comes. Woe to those with student loans for they will be slaves for life.
Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Posts: 4349 Location: The Great Sonoran Desert
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
So let me see if I get this right...
People can't work because gas is not available...
People can't eat because food is not available...
People can't read a book because electricity is not available...
But...
The postman is gonna drive to your house...pick up the student loan payment...drive to the post office...that payment is driven to the airport...put on a plane...driven to the post office in DC...driven to sallie mae and credited to your electronic account....and this happens every month.
Yeah right...
It's the end of the world as we know it...except for student loans...
Are you guys for real...are you listening to yourselves? _________________ "There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
"... hope is a rotten-thighed whore" Niko Kazantzakis
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
roccman wrote:
The postman is gonna drive to your house...pick up the student loan payment...drive to the post office...that payment is driven to the airport...put on a plane...driven to the post office in DC...driven to sallie mae and credited to your electronic account....and this happens every month.
Shakes head at the old-fashioned banking practices of the States. With internet banking (which I have been using for over a dozen years) one does not need to do so much driving!!!! But this still needs some infrastructure such as electricity and phone lines (or mobile phone relay stations). _________________ We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
Quote:
The market concluded that if Bear was too inter-connected to fail when markets are fragile, all other large commercial and investment banks are too, and the US government is now in effect providing a credit backstop to all of them.
So the rally is not as irrational as I thought. The rally in the stock market is due to the fact they are now getting guarentees from the taxpayer that the risks will be cushioned.
I wince to see the people so keen on the market given such protection from its consaquencies. Like spoilt rich children who have lost any sence of the value of the things they play with.
Joined: May 19, 2005 Posts: 795 Location: Merry Ol' USA
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
Most student debt is already collateralized by the federal government through Stafford loans et al. IE if you don't pay, the feds agree to pay the lender off, then the feds come after you for the money. Without this assurance very few lenders would be willing to give 19 year olds $40k or more for an education.
I know of at least one person that's decided to not get any more jobs where they claim any kind of taxes because they owe so much in student loans that any official money is bound to be grabbed by the feds. They work odd jobs and off the books. _________________ After fueling up their cars, Twyman says they bowed their heads and asked God for cheaper gas.There was no immediate answer, but he says other motorists joined in and the service station owner didn't run them off.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3589 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
Rising school costs and student loan payback taking precedence over all other debt, etc?
Sounds like the accessibility to higher education is being tightened. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Joined: May 13, 2005 Posts: 2842 Location: The Urban Village
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
IslandCrow wrote:
roccman wrote:
The postman is gonna drive to your house...pick up the student loan payment...drive to the post office...that payment is driven to the airport...put on a plane...driven to the post office in DC...driven to sallie mae and credited to your electronic account....and this happens every month.
Shakes head at the old-fashioned banking practices of the States. With internet banking (which I have been using for over a dozen years) one does not need to do so much driving!!!! But this still needs some infrastructure such as electricity and phone lines (or mobile phone relay stations).
You laugh at us now, but after TEOTWAWKI we'll still be getting our student loan bills, by donkey if needed.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4333 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
TreeFarmer wrote:
Student loan debt is very hard to get out of if you are the borrower. The law was changed a few years ago so that now student loan debt stays with you after bankruptcy. Therefore, I would think that this kind of debt would have value, after all, as long as you live they can keep coming after you for the $.
The Bible says, "the borrower is the servant of the lender." How true it is.
TF
The Feds will even garnishee your social security check, if'n you live taht long.
Quote:
Commercial creditors cannot garnish your Social Security retirement check. However, the Federal government may garnish your benefits to recover student loans, back taxes, or any other monies owed to the Federal government. Additionally, your Social Security retirement check may be garnished for current or back child support.
Joined: Oct 24, 2005 Posts: 828 Location: North of Id, west of Oz, and infront of the damned rabbit
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
vision-master wrote:
TreeFarmer wrote:
Student loan debt is very hard to get out of if you are the borrower. The law was changed a few years ago so that now student loan debt stays with you after bankruptcy. Therefore, I would think that this kind of debt would have value, after all, as long as you live they can keep coming after you for the $.
The Bible says, "the borrower is the servant of the lender." How true it is.
TF
The Feds will even garnishee your social security check, if'n you live taht long.
Quote:
Commercial creditors cannot garnish your Social Security retirement check. However, the Federal government may garnish your benefits to recover student loans, back taxes, or any other monies owed to the Federal government. Additionally, your Social Security retirement check may be garnished for current or back child support.
Considering they are using whatever I'm giving them now to pay for the current recipients, I've long ago counted that money as nonexistent. _________________ Was a long and dark December
When the banks became cathedrals
And the fog
Became God
Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 999 Location: As close as I can get to the beginning of the pipe.
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
dorlomin wrote:
Quote:
The market concluded that if Bear was too inter-connected to fail when markets are fragile, all other large commercial and investment banks are too, and the US government is now in effect providing a credit backstop to all of them.
So the rally is not as irrational as I thought. The rally in the stock market is due to the fact they are now getting guarentees from the taxpayer that the risks will be cushioned.
Yes, the stock market is behaving irrationally because of the backstop, but the primary reason is the accelerating inflation. I went looking for something that depicted stock market behavior during early hyperinflation and found this article. The whole article is good, and it reflects a longer timeline that suggests that a lot of the permanent bull-market stock market behavior of the last 3 decades post US peak oil is due to inflation.
Quote:
"Analysts attributing the stock market bubble to mass hysteria are looking solely at asset prices in relation to corporate profits, while assuming that the purchasing power of money itself is reasonably stable. Investors make this mistake by focusing on the nominal prices of their stocks. If they looked at the market as a measure of how fast their money was losing value, they would not be so quick to assume that the price ratios between assets and goods would remain stable, or improve in their favor. Perhaps instead the prices of other goods would adjust upwards to catch up with stocks....
The rise of increasingly poor quality stock offerings can be seen as a flight into increasingly poor quality of assets, much like the flight from cash into ever poorer quality goods that occurs in a hyper-inflation. At the bubble's peak, everyone believed that the purchasing power of money would continue to depreciate (relative to stock shares), until it was nearly worthless (as a means of purchasing these assets). Dot com IPOs and bed pans have more than a little in common....
Critics of investor behavior during stock market buying panics are focusing on the over-valuation of shares in relation to the earning power of companies. Investors during the 90s were guilty of irrationality if we look only at the expansion of prices ratios between financial assets and consumption goods that was taking place. But understood as a panic response to the calculational chaos introduced by a rapidly depreciating monetary unit we can see the stock buyers of the 90s in the same boat as the Germans of the Weimar era, trying to spend money rapidly becoming worthless.
While the monetary madness of the 90s gave us hyperinflation in stocks, during the last few years the effects of money printing have been seen more in the housing market. As the stock bubble deranged relative prices between financial assets and consumption goods, the inflation of housing is driving home prices to unsustainable levels relative to wages and prices. Partly by artifice, partly by luck, the effects of an over heated printing press have not been felt full-on in wages and consumption goods. But Al and his band of counterfeiters at the Fed are rapidly running out of asset classes large enough to soak up the flood of greenbacks without setting off a visible inflation. If the dollars start to flow into goods and wages, then Weimar, not Wall St. will be the next destination."
Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Posts: 4349 Location: The Great Sonoran Desert
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
Iaato wrote:
Yes, the stock market is behaving irrationally because of the backstop, but the primary reason is the accelerating inflation.
Hmmmm...where did all the deflationists go?
(sound of crickets)
Hmmmm...wonder if gold will go to the moon...?
(sound of crickets)
Hmmmm...wonder if the dollar gets so badly assraped that...(wait for it)....a new currency will emerge...?
(sound of crickets)
Inquiring minds want to know. _________________ "There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
"... hope is a rotten-thighed whore" Niko Kazantzakis
Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Posts: 4349 Location: The Great Sonoran Desert
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Housing & Economic Collapse - In Progress
GeoJAP wrote:
roccman wrote:
Hmmmm...wonder if the dollar gets so badly assraped that...(wait for it)....a new currency will emerge...?
I've never been much of a conspiracy theorist before, but I can't stop this nagging idea in my head that this has been the plan all along.
Here is where you get super human strength Geo...
This "nagging" will one day be the one thing that saves your ass...
Knowing this ...and acting on it are worlds apart...
In time most all will "know" this...
Stop there...
Don't act on it.
Let the first wave get slaughtered...
And you ...escape. _________________ "There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
"... hope is a rotten-thighed whore" Niko Kazantzakis
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Rocc's jaw is totally unhinged, and he has swallowed the whole pig roast.
