The Amish and Menonites had it right

Leena · Coal Joined: Mar 22, 2006 Posts: 1

We laugh at them, but when u think about it, they're the ones that will be able to survive a global economic crash. We could all learn lessons from these people who didn't put their faith and dependance on the technologies of this world. If we were smart, we would start preparing now for a lifestyle much like them where we'll be riding horse and buggy again and warming our homes with fire and using homemade fuel for lanterns. we will have to rely on one another for barter and helping hands in growing crops and building homes.

Pops

Hi Leena, welcome.

This has been talked about before and I don’t want to get down on your first post – But:

The Amish around here use Coleman fuel for lanterns and diesel fuel to run the air compressors that in turn run their wells and shop tools, hire drivers to drive them around in their cars and other farmers to do their tractor work, own skid-steer loaders, frequent the same stores I do, have telephones – albeit in a small building a certain distance from their houses, have tons of battery-powered tools (they charge them at the “English” houses) and are usually in business to sell things to people with money – again the English.

They do have a tight knit community and a fantastic work ethic – that is their main advantage from what I’ve seen locally.
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Make a plan and work it:

TheTurtle

Except for the fact that if the culture around them collapses then the police force of that dominant culture will no longer be there to protect them.

In a feudal world, pacifist cultures become the serfs of those who are not pacifist.

There are those on these forums who believe that homesteads will be overrun by conquering hoardes from the cities. If that turns out to be the case, the Amish will be the first to fall.
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“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)

pstarr

I agree that the Amish are an ideal model. They are not purists. They do not eschew modern technology. They just pick and choose their tools with the goal of maintaining healthy closed self-regulating cycles. They shift nutrients around the farm, produce around the community, and skills, money, labor, and knowledge between each other. They are geniuses Very Happy

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director

ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap wav

backstop

Pops -

it sounds like their communities might be excellent test-beds for testing the sustainability of new rural energy technologies.

Do you think their enduring ethics would add to their motivation favouring such a research project ?

regards,

Backstop
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"The best of conservation . . . is written not with a pen but with an axe."
(from "A Sand County Almanac" by Aldo Leopold, 1948.

pstarr

I don't believe that the Amish like being observed. In a way I believe the Amish are profoundly aware of energy cycles and remain isolated to contain energy leaks--caloric, social, and sexual. I also believe that their religious non-violence is probably just a tool to maintain cohesion and distance from the dominant culture. I would hope that in a chaotic situation they would have the brains to adapt. Twisted Evil

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director

ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap wav

Pops

As I understand them, each group’s elders decide which “outside” device or resource can be allowed into the community – the main goal is to be independent of the outside.

As such, their main goal is to hold to the old ways as much as possible while maintaining viability. The pressures on the elders to keep young folks in the fold and still stick to the “plain” ways must be tough.

I have talked to one neighbor Backstop, regarding raising sorghum to be distilled into alcohol for fuel and he seemed very interested but I can be sure that whatever they experiment with they would pretty well keep to themselves.

I’ll disagree with pstarr a little regarding the shifting of resource around the farm. My neighbor to the windward side has a pretty pasture – maintained with mined lime and turkey litter from one of the Tyson-clone ranches. He sometimes hays that field with a horse-drawn gas-powered bailer – very picturesque as he stands driving the big pair of Percherons(sp?) in front of the bailer. In other words, he is importing nutrients from the oil-powered English (using a diesel spreader to do it) and feeds it to his “sustainable” horse-powered motor pool.

Again, they are extremely frugal and hard working people and I don’t mean to imply different. But the simple fact is they will experience a very hard transition just like the rest of us – if you want to model yourself after your ideal of them don’t forget the reality of them – work hard.
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Make a plan and work it:

pstarr

killJOY · Fission Joined: Feb 21, 2005 Posts: 2346 Location: ^NNE^

Amish seem to combine the best of both worlds at times. I've observed them in Ohio, with admiration. "Appropriate technology" comes to mind.

Too bad their belief system is insane.
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"By the time individuals discover that remaining resources will not be adequate for the next generation, the next generation has already been born. " David Price

TheTurtle

pstarr

You want to check out a belief system? Rent a movie called "Devil's Playground" or read about it here Devil's Playground

deafskeptic · Heavy Crude Joined: Nov 02, 2005 Posts: 105

Sometimes I wish my mother's Mennonite ancestors in Luray, Va hadn't converted to the Baptist Church ages ago.

I don't think we need to convert to their beliefs but I do think we need to build a community, work on self help and helping each other and stuff like that. Survivalism isn't going to work in the long run given it's individualistic bent.

However, as my mother - who grew up on a farm - has always reminded me more times than I care to remember, farm work is very hard work. It won't be a walk in the park.

(This said by someone who is pretty individualistic herself!)

cynthia · Heavy Crude Joined: May 29, 2005 Posts: 344

This subject is dear to my heart. I'll have to search out the original posts that I've not read.
I was raised in a Mennonite home. My parent's became a part of a modern church while my maternal grandparents worshiped in the old ways avoiding TV (until they left their farm), dressing simply and working very hard on their 80 acres. (My paternal grandparent's also Mennonites were more modern).
I appreciate the knowledge and skills my grandparents and parents passed on to me: Strong work ethic, gardening, cooking, food preservation and sewing skills.
While I consider myself spiritual, it's not God-centered. I miss the sense of community the Mennonites cultivate and I admire their contribution to those less fortunate. Although well meaning like most missionary types, they might not always act in the best interests of the cultures they visit. They perform amazing work in home-building and disaster support in the US.
I visited an Amish home in Pennsylvania when I was ten years old. It left a big impression. I remember the soap making room and that this household owned a car-which was considered very modern in the late sixties.
Lastly, I am grateful for my pacifist beliefs-born out of my upbringing. I recommend the Mennonite Faith to those seeking god-centered spiritual community. And you'll learn some helpful skills too.

zberry · Heavy Crude Joined: Mar 21, 2006 Posts: 133

I listened to an interview on globalpublicmedia.com with a guy who lived among Amish in 1990s. Most interesting thing was that the community was the health insurance system. A child in the community required a $100,000 surgery and the people in the community raised the money. For those of us with family/children hoping to escape suburbia, health care is a big concern. Even if you can lead a simple low-cost life, what if your kids get sick?

satjeet · Heavy Crude Joined: Jul 15, 2004 Posts: 121

and don't forget the Shakers - creative, held goods in common, and DID NOT REPRODUCE