How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: Nov 28, 2004 Posts: 11751 Location: Neither Here Nor There
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: Re: GM : "Retirement can no longer be counted on"
I knew a teacher who had taken out his retirement money years ago to start a business. The business failed and he had to go back into teaching, which he did cheerfully though he had no prospects for retirement. Swell fellow. He was in his late 70s and seemed healthy and was starting a new school year when he suffered a massive stroke in class during the first week of school. He's institutionalized now, badly messed up and soon to die. I see a lot of very old people working as substitute teachers. I'll count myself lucky if I can do the same.
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6274 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:45 am Post subject: Re: GM : "Retirement can no longer be counted on"
Sys1 wrote:
Good luck baby boomers
And everybody else. You think they're screwed? They're God's Chosen People compared to the wholesale shafting everybody who follows them is going to get. You ain't seen nothin' yet, kid. Get ready to duck.
Things have changed just a bit. The American Dream has been somewhat revised over the last few decades. Believe it or not, we were told that the biggest problem we were going to have in the future would be what to do with our leisure time. There was all kinds of scholarly speculation on how we would occupy ourselves during the long vacations we would have and the excess free hours we would enjoy every week.
Yep, we were going to see a future of 30-hour or even 25-hour work weeks, and four or five weeks of vacation would become the national standard. Automation and mechanization would create a worker's paradise where our productivity would be so incredibly high we would all live like we were semi-retired.
And we believed it, just like we believed the fairy tale that nuclear power would be so cheap we wouldn't even have electric meters on our houses. We'd all be charged a nominal little flat rate for electricity, instead.
We actually thought that life in the future would be sort of a combination of "The Jetsons" and "Ozzie and Harriet": Serene, comfortable, secure, and convenient beyond anything we could imagine.
Welcome to the real 21st century, folks: Double-deadbolt your doors, get ready for rolling brownouts and blackouts, and be glad if you're able to still find employment when you're very old, 'cause you're going to need the job.
Last edited by Zardoz on Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:16 am Post subject: Re: GM : "Retirement can no longer be counted on"
This is exactly why I think I truly am one of the luckiest people alive with the exception of those that are about to die peacefully and still had the benefits of our society. I am just a freshman in college. I believe that PO will happen some time after I graduate grad school at the absolute latest and maybe even this year or so. This leaves me with the option of choosing exactly what I want to do, be it an engineer, farmer, businessman, etc. Anything that can help me out in the future. I'm not burdened down with a mortage or (thanks to my rich-ass-oil-tycoon uncle) college loans. I am free to choose what I want and have ample time to study it.
I'm also old enough to not be completely susceptible to the forces outside of my control like the newborns and little kids of today. By the time they reach the age of adulthood and can have any kind of control over their lives, that control will have been stripped from them by the government, wars, mass stupidity, or mass disease. They'll be forced to do whatever it takes just to survive.
I also had the amazing benefit of being born in the US where education is so abundantly availabe, even more so than (clean) water.
I truly am lucky. I hope I don't let anyone here (or anywhere for that matter) down.
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: GM : "Retirement can no longer be counted on"
Zardoz wrote:
Sys1 wrote:
Good luck baby boomers
Yep, we were going to see a future of 30-hour or even 25-hour work weeks, and four or five weeks of vacation would become the national standard. Automation and mechanization would create a worker's paradise where our productivity would be so incredibly high we would all live like we were semi-retired.
We could be living like that now if the world was not so greedy. In 1950 the Average American lived in a small house and only had one car. Only one out of four households owned a TV. More than half the households still had large vegetable gardens. For the price of one movie ticket you could see three or four live broadway like plays. We could still live that way today if we gave up 40 hour work weeks and ideas like second cars, universal TV ownership, or other mass consumerism.
That power down future almost did happen except in 1957 the soviets launched sputnik and suddenly Americans were being told to get off our lazy asses and work harder to beat those evil communists. We should have listened to Hubbert instead and conserved our future by doing less and having less.
Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Posts: 985 Location: Where walking makes you a wierdo
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: GM : "Retirement can no longer be counted on"
I often wonder whether I should quit my Govt. job and take the big penalty to cash out my 401k type retirement and buy PM's with it. I'm 12 years away from penalty-free acess to my account.
Should I trust the US government not to screw it's retirees for another 12 years? _________________ The knowledge to survive post peak will not come from our laboratories. It will come from our museums.
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: GM : "Retirement can no longer be counted on"
peaker_2005 wrote:
And this is why, at 20, I don't expect to retire once I enter the workforce...
You can retire if you save money.
At 5% interest, saving 5000$ a year over a carreer of 40 years will generate an income of 30000$ a year forever. You live comfortably for the rest of your life and your children get 30000$ a year forever when they inherit.
How much do you pay in social security? Do you get that same deal?
Joined: Aug 13, 2005 Posts: 603 Location: BlueRidgeVA
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: GM : "Retirement can no longer be counted on"
NeoPeasant wrote:
Should I trust the US government not to screw it's retirees for another 12 years?
The US Gubbermint is spending like a drunken sailor. We are sucking down credit which is being consumed in ME conflicts and general corruption. And which will bankrupt us eventually. Eventually US gubmint will go bankrupt and we will lose control of our own affairs....and be subject to the whims and demands of foreign powers. The big middle-class social programs will be toast- and government employee pensions will be on the block. Also, PO shock waves may well be rolling over the economy, absorbing the a huge amount of remaining resources.
I would advise against viewing precious metals as a sure thing. There are scenarios where gold does very well for a temporary period ie a dollar collapse. However, there are also scenarios where gold does very poorly. A massive US credit collapse might set deflationary forces in motion that would end up with a deflated currency and lower gold. A bird flu pandemic might result in an international collapse in demand which would not be good for gold...hard cash and credit would be needed to rebuild the global economy- not a bunch of Kruggerands.
Don't put everything into PMs no what what you do. Or into open commodity contracts. Beware.
Last edited by DesertBear2 on Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: GM : "Retirement can no longer be counted on"
jaws wrote:
peaker_2005 wrote:
And this is why, at 20, I don't expect to retire once I enter the workforce...
You can retire if you save money.
At 5% interest, saving 5000$ a year over a carreer of 40 years will generate an income of 30000$ a year forever. You live comfortably for the rest of your life and your children get 30000$ a year forever when they inherit.
How much do you pay in social security? Do you get that same deal?
That 5% interest assumes infinate growth in the consumer global capitalist system. If you understand even a tenth of the PO posts here you would know that system is at its limits now. With the realities of PO on us saving $5000 a year will leave you dirt poor after 40 years. You would be lucky if the money is worth the paper it is printed on by then. Don't be a fool and put money is your 401k or IRA cash out now and buy gold. You will never get rich with gold but atleast you will not be blindsided by the PO train wreck.
Joined: Jul 25, 2004 Posts: 681 Location: Hunter Valley, New South Wales, Australia
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: GM : "Retirement can no longer be counted on"
peaker_2005 wrote:
And this is why, at 20, I don't expect to retire once I enter the workforce...
And why, at 20, do you expect to enter the workforce? That's the problem - we seem to have reached Peak Employment, too. As things like General Motors go bankrupt, expect the ripples to spread out across the World Economy.
"What Happens to GM Will Happen To The United States!"
The Housing Bubble is finally (THANKFULLY!) coming to an end, where there is a slight possibility that - instead of pouring every cent into McMansions - some investment now might flow to Peak Oil related areas (ie: to help soften the blow).
I know, I know small chance, but the chances were ZERO while the Housing Bubble was/is on.
"Retirement" is something that, like "ethics" or "honesty", will be seen as "old-fashioned". You'll work until you drop dead at your desk/ workbench. Karoshi it's called in Japan. And then, no doubt, your last pay check to your fictional children will be garnisheed to cover the removal & disposal of your body. _________________ .
"To Get Rich you have to:
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
