Sugar cane saves the day (and the world economy)

hoplite · Heavy Crude Joined: Oct 22, 2004 Posts: 300

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/29/eveningnews/main1454613.shtml

Pheeww!, I was begininng to think I was gonna have to sell my H1 AND my lifestyle! (I AM a technological cornicopian when it comes to this PO.COM doomer crap). I don't know that THIS is the answer but I'm sure it will be something like this...

rogerhb

sicophiliac

Doesnt sugar cane have a better EROEI then corn based ethanol ? If Brazils been using it for such a large chunch of the thier liquid fuels needs it gotta be worth something right?

gego · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2005 Posts: 1334

shortonoil · Fission Joined: Dec 02, 2004 Posts: 2752 Location: VA USA

sicophiliac said:

TITAN

shortonoil · Fission Joined: Dec 02, 2004 Posts: 2752 Location: VA USA

TITAN said:

Concerned · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Sep 23, 2004 Posts: 1553

coyote

pstarr

Brazil Sugar Cane production shows a cursory postive energy return because several significant energy inputs, virtual slave labor and virgin soils, are externalized and not added into the energy calculations by the producers.

Manual sugar cane production is still more effective than machine production because of cane-damage oxidation. Also, Brazil is a country of extreme income disparity, and there is a pool of impoverished people (mostly dark-skinned) who can be counted on to work for their food and little more.

Also the Pantanal, the largest expanse of wetlands in the world and one of the world's last great virgin marshes is being converted to monocrop sugar production and will deplete and die after this boom.

So this biofuel bonanza is another sham and disgrace. What is new?
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap wav

zoidberg

Plus a favored tactic is to burn the waste plant matter to power the stuff to make ethenol from the sugar. Essentially, plants grow and everything is taken from the crop and not put back. How many crops will that land produce at that rate?

This is only half a rhetorical question. If anyone can hazard a guess it'd be interesting to know.

Clouseau2

Gazzatrone

Nice idea in theory but.

1) The dilemma of using land to grow food or land to grow energy. Who's going to be around to use all this ethanol when they've all died of hunger?

2) The mass drive to either convert "regular" cars in order for them to run on ethanol, or switch factory production to making solely cars using ethanol. Consider it has taken 100 years of motoring to get us to this point. With the current cost of base metals I think you are looking at a cost of the production of a new vehicle being so in terms of research and development, that car companies would refuse to change.

3) Will growth be fast enough to produce what would be in ten years time a world demand of in the region of 100mbpd. I don't think so. (see point one)

These ideas work well on small single country scale that have the oppurtunity of growing a resource. But that is the point. Not everywhere can grow sugar cane and we create a new system Peak Land.

The inability to maintain sustainable growth usinng a finite resource i.e Land

BrazilianPO

Hi everyone. Even though I have been checking this forum for the last two years this is my first post. About Brazil, sugar cane is grown mostly in the northeast of the country, which enjoys lots of sun and rain all year long.

The Pantanal and Amazon forest are being deforested for growing soy bean, wheat and for cattle as well. The workforce is almost slave, just like China. If you leave the large cities, the wages become ridiculously low, but you can still survive because living costs are also ridiculously low. Sugar cane will work for Brazil, India and some other countries, but not for everyone.

Also, soil depletion is a problem, but Brazilian farmers have been very cautious on that, using techniques that minimize (but not eliminate) it. The ethanol program has been going on for over 30 years and is now at its best. Very Happy

0mar

Scale, people, scale!

The US produces more ethanol than anyone else in the world, even Brazil. And all that ethanol the US produces is enough for maybe a couple days worth of imports.

If everything about ethanol was absolutely perfect, it would still take decades before there was actually a significant amount of energy derived from ethanol (ie more than a few tenths/hundredths of a percentage point).
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Joseph Stalin
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