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Graeme
Fission
Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 2571
Location: New Zealand
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 Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: Britain goes nuclear |
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Britain goes nuclear
| Quote: | Britain will enter a new nuclear age this week as ministers approve the latest generation of atomic power plants and MPs clear the way for a replacement for Trident.
The Independent on Sunday can reveal that tomorrow the Cabinet's Energy and Environment Committee will take the crucial decision to build new nuclear power stations for the first time in 20 years. |
independent
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FireJack
Heavy Crude
Joined: Mar 16, 2005
Posts: 449
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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| IT will probably be good in the short run (assuming they have the plant up and running before too long) but I can see problems in the long run. Any details on the actual power plant being built? |
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Sys1
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 606
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:29 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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As soon as their nuclear plant will be finished, they will realize we have passed peak uranium.
Reminds me the A380 story. Mankind is checkmate. |
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sameu
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Aug 18, 2005
Posts: 525
Location: Belgium, Europe
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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it should be very interesting to see what happens to the price of uranium the coming months and years
past three four years the only way was up
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Starvid
Fission
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 2679
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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It's not like the price of uranium matters to nuclear power as a whole.
| Quote: | Nuclear power’s variable cost is 3,5 öre/kWh, of which almost 3 öre is for the fuel and about 1 öre for future waste disposal. The fuel costs break down into three approximately equal parts: uranium, enrichment and fuel rod fabrication. Each costs about 1 öre/kWh. This means that a doubling in the cost of natural uranium, from 1 öre/kWh to 2 öre/kWh, would increase the total cost of nuclear power from 20 öre/kWh to 21 öre/kWh, i.e. a 5 per cent increase.
On the other hand, if the price of natural gas was doubled, the cost of gas-fired power would increase by about 60 per cent. Doubling the price of coal would increase the cost of power production in a large coal-fired power station by about 30 per cent. Another interesting illustration is that the production cost of coal power would increase by at least 60 per cent if carbon dioxide had to be removed at the power station. |
http://www.analys.se/lankar/Fakta/fakta36eng.pdf
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DoctorDoom
Heavy Crude
Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 250
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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| Starvid wrote: | It's not like the price of uranium matters to nuclear power as a whole.
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Couldn't have said it better myself. At some point the price will be high enough to make reprocessing irresistable. At some point beyond that breeders will be required. |
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mekrob
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Joined: Dec 09, 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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| I'm not very knowing of nuclear fission, but I thought I read on here that reprocessing can yield 50 times the amount of net energy per unit of cost. So really, when prices have increased 6 fold in the past few years, this could easily be neglected with a 50 fold decrease in cost with reprocessing. |
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Starvid
Fission
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 2679
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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| mekrob wrote: | | I'm not very knowing of nuclear fission, but I thought I read on here that reprocessing can yield 50 times the amount of net energy per unit of cost. So really, when prices have increased 6 fold in the past few years, this could easily be neglected with a 50 fold decrease in cost with reprocessing. |
It's breeders that do that, not reprocessing. Reprocessing yields something like 20-25 % extra fuel in the form of mixed oxide fuel (MOX(uranium+plutonium)).
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gg3
Expert
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 3428
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:51 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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More good news this week. Excellent.
Uranium: what they said about reprocessing and breeder reactors. France has track record there, and presumably engineering talent that's willing to travel if needed.
And after uranium comes thorium, which is good for another century or two. |
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newhunter-gatherer
Tar Sands
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Joined: Apr 11, 2006
Posts: 62
Location: about to go splat
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:21 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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I am all for nuclear power, at least it will keep the lights on. However, in a bankrupt post-peak Britain 5-10 years from now, where will the government find the funding (and energy) for all of this?
In addition, the only source of energy that comes out of a nuclear reactor is electricity. And I don't see any electric planes, trains, boats, cars, and trucks in operation. How will going nuclear save our oil intensive JIT food/fuel/consumer products distribution infrastructure that our society is woefully dependant on from collapse? |
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skeptic
Heavy Crude
Joined: Dec 20, 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Costa Geriatrica
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:40 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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| newhunter-gatherer wrote: | | And I don't see any electric planes, trains, boats, cars, and trucks in operation. |
I hardly ever see anything but electric trains at the end of my road these days, fortunately. Those old diesels were dirty and smelly.
Electric boats cars and trucks are coming, hybrids at first. Electric planes? doubt that will ever happen. flight is always going to need liquid fuel of some sort or other., |
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Tanada
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Joined: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 3443
Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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| newhunter-gatherer wrote: | I am all for nuclear power, at least it will keep the lights on. However, in a bankrupt post-peak Britain 5-10 years from now, where will the government find the funding (and energy) for all of this?
In addition, the only source of energy that comes out of a nuclear reactor is electricity. And I don't see any electric planes, trains, boats, cars, and trucks in operation. How will going nuclear save our oil intensive JIT food/fuel/consumer products distribution infrastructure that our society is woefully dependant on from collapse? |
Boats can sail if they want, but SHIPS (1000 tons displacement and up) will just install a reactor like the N.S. Savannah and a whole slew of submarine and surface ships in the Navy. The twin reactors in a Nimitz carrier would easily power a cargo ship or oil tanker.
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as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov |
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newhunter-gatherer
Tar Sands
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Joined: Apr 11, 2006
Posts: 62
Location: about to go splat
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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"I hardly ever see anything but electric trains at the end of my road these days, fortunately. Those old diesels were dirty and smelly.
Electric boats cars and trucks are coming, hybrids at first. Electric planes? doubt that will ever happen. flight is always going to need liquid fuel of some sort or other.,"
I see nothing but diesel powered trains humming all day long along the main line that runs at the bottom of our garden.
I seriously doubt that we will ever see electric trucks, or cars. It requires around one metric tonne of lead acid batteries to provide the same amount of energy that a small internal combustion engine produces. An 18 wheel truck would need a battery the size of a small house to provide the energy needed to haul a load over any significant distance. |
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Doly
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Joined: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 4031
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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| newhunter-gatherer wrote: |
I seriously doubt that we will ever see electric trucks, or cars. |
There are electric cars already. Ask the Toecutter, he's the expert around here. |
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Wildwell
Fission
Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 2080
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Britain goes nuclear |
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Electric cars are quite possible, it's just scalability and re-fueling.
Electric trains have been about for 100 years and are pretty universal in Europe for freight and passengers. Some countries are 100% or near 100% electric - Eg Switzerland.
Electric buses exist as do trolley buses and trams.
Trucks are more tricky because of weight, but you could have a 'trolley truck' and rail feeder system or use biodiesel in a difficult situation
Planes rely on liquid fuels are are the most difficult challenge. |
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