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willjones4
Tar Sands
Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 84
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 Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:04 pm Post subject: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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Nissan Chatting Up GM
I kind of always thought the big boys would begin to fold beginning with mergers until there were one or two big autos left to slug it out at the end for them both. Looks like its starting. |
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Sleepybag
Tar Sands
Joined: Oct 17, 2005
Posts: 68
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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U.S. car sales tumble in June; GM sees nearly 26 percent decline
| CNN wrote: | DETROIT (Reuters) -- Detroit's Big Three automakers all posted dismal June sales on Monday, while Toyota saw gains.
General Motors (Charts), the world's largest automaker, said its U.S. sales fell 25.9 percent in June, a sharp decline from last year's incentive-boosted numbers and in line with the automaker's cautionary forecast. |
Apparently, higher fuel prices result in an altered consumer preference. Fuel efficient cars, made by Japanese car producers, are not suffering from a reduced sales volume:
| Quote: | Sales for Toyota (Charts), which has eclipsed DaimlerChrysler to become the third-largest player in the U.S. auto market, shot up 14 percent.
Toyota has taken larger share of the contracting U.S. market as consumers have been drawn to its vehicle line-up, which trails only Honda (Charts) in average fuel economy. |
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MC2
Heavy Crude
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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| Maybe the fact that most American cars truly suck has something to do with the phenomenon! |
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TheTurtle
Fission
Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 2123
Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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| MC2 wrote: | | Maybe the fact that most American cars truly suck has something to do with the phenomenon! |
I'm pretty much of the opionion that ALL modern cars suck. IF I ever buy another car (and at this point, I don't think I will), it will be an old VW. The 72 Karman Ghia I once had is still the best auto I ever owned.
Remember the old phrase, "What's good for General Motors is good for the USA"?
There's a certain irony, considering this latest auto news, no? 
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“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry) |
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whereagles
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Aug 17, 2005
Posts: 579
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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| TheTurtle wrote: | | IF I ever buy another car (and at this point, I don't think I will), it will be an old VW. |
The mercedes 190d diesels have reputation to go through 1 million km with minimal maintenance.
They consume 9-10 litres/100 km at cruise speed, though. ~20-25 mpg. |
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Heineken
Expert
Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 6428
Location: Rural Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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One of the many things I hope to be able to celebrate before I die is the bankruptcy of GM and/or Ford, truly awful corporations that have worked hard for many decades to wreck the world and have largely succeeded in doing so.
And, yeah, their products suck too.
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"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother |
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Zardoz
Expert
Joined: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 6388
Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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| Heineken wrote: | | ...GM...truly awful...their products suck too. |
We're renting a Saturn Ion this week while visiting relatives. I'm constantly comparing it to my new Civic, and there is no comparison. I could go on and on about all its deficiencies. It's easy to see why people have turned away from GM products.
This is very sad.
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"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen |
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paoniapbud
Tar Sands
Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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Ford and GM are dying. Just the beginning of the death throes.
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"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
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dex
Coal
Joined: Jun 30, 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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| paoniapbud wrote: | | Ford and GM are dying. Just the beginning of the death throes. |
Only in the United States, don't cry for these companies. Ford and GM have seen considerable growth in China. 20-46% /year. When they lay off workers and close factories in North America they are opening new ones in China. With a population of 1.3 billion people the execs and shareholders must be drooling at the next few decades of growth in China alone. Of course it will be at the expense of American jobs and we can probably expect the US governments' to pay lip service to the cause; not much government can do when you consider the American assets China carries. Who's your daddy!!! |
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smiley
Fission
Joined: Apr 16, 2004
Posts: 2125
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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| Quote: | | Only in the United States, don't cry for these companies. Ford and GM have seen considerable growth in China. 20-46% /year. When they lay off workers and close factories in North America they are opening new ones in China. |
Remember how IBM was going to make big bucks selling PC's in China? Well they are doing that now. Only IBM PC's is now fully Chinese owned.
It is ironical that they were taken over by the very company they hired to penetrate the Chinese market.
It wouldn't surprise me if the same would happen with big auto's 'strategic alliances" in China. |
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dukey
Fission
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 2023
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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GM stock is like top performer
up already 50% this year alone
and apparantly sales weren't 'bad' due to the fact they were compared to last year, where they have the employee discount thing which generated record sales of trucks/suvs. Comparing to the 2004 value sales are actually up a bit i think, but they are still losing market share to toyota. |
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dex
Coal
Joined: Jun 30, 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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| smiley wrote: | | Quote: | | Only in the United States, don't cry for these companies. Ford and GM have seen considerable growth in China. 20-46% /year. When they lay off workers and close factories in North America they are opening new ones in China. |
Remember how IBM was going to make big bucks selling PC's in China? Well they are doing that now. Only IBM PC's is now fully Chinese owned.
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IBM sold its PC division to Lenovo. IBM aquired 18% stake in the Lenovo company |
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smiley
Fission
Joined: Apr 16, 2004
Posts: 2125
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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| Quote: | | IBM sold its PC division to Lenovo. IBM aquired 18% stake in the Lenovo company |
Whether IBM sold its PC division or Lenovo bought it is subject to interpretation. Point is that it is very easy to imagine a similar thing happening between for instance GM and SAIC or Wuling.
| Quote: | In 1984, not long after PCD was founded, 11 computer scientists in Beijing, China also had a vision – to create a company that would bring the advantages of information technology to the Chinese people. With RMB200,000 (US$25,000) in seed money and the determination to turn their research into successful products, the 11 engineers and researchers set up shop in a loaned space – a small, one-story bungalow in Beijing. The company they founded, Legend, opened the new era of consumer PCs in China.
Since it was established, the company has affected the lives of millions of Chinese: It first introduced PCs to households, then promoted PC usage in China by establishing retail shops nationwide. It also developed the pioneering Legend Chinese Character Card that translated English operating software into Chinese characters, and achieved breakthroughs like PCs with one-button access to the Internet.
By 1994, Legend was trading on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange; four years later, it produced its one-millionth personal computer. In 2003, Legend changed its brand name to Lenovo, taking the "Le" from Legend, a nod to its heritage, and adding "novo," the Latin word for "new," to reflect the spirit of innovation at the core of the company. The company name changed from Legend to Lenovo a year later.
Today, these two visionary companies are united under the Lenovo name. With Lenovo's landmark acquisition of IBM's Personal Computing Division in May 2005, the new Lenovo is a leader in the global PC market, with approximately $13 billion in annual revenue, and products serving enterprises and consumers the world over. |
These companies have embarked on dangerous partnerships. GM basically uses their part of the Chinese profits to stopgap the losses in the US. SAIC uses them to built a war chest. |
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paoniapbud
Tar Sands
Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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| dex wrote: | | paoniapbud wrote: | | Ford and GM are dying. Just the beginning of the death throes. |
With a population of 1.3 billion people the execs and shareholders must be drooling at the next few decades of growth in China alone.
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Well, that's if you assume PO is false! 
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"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
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mjdlight
Tar Sands
Joined: Feb 22, 2006
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Beginning of the End for Big Auto? |
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| dex wrote: | | paoniapbud wrote: | | Ford and GM are dying. Just the beginning of the death throes. |
Only in the United States, don't cry for these companies. Ford and GM have seen considerable growth in China. 20-46% /year. When they lay off workers and close factories in North America they are opening new ones in China. With a population of 1.3 billion people the execs and shareholders must be drooling at the next few decades of growth in China alone. Of course it will be at the expense of American jobs and we can probably expect the US governments' to pay lip service to the cause; not much government can do when you consider the American assets China carries. Who's your daddy!!! |
Funny how Rick Wagoner cites those sales numbers in China as proof that GM can compete with Toyota.
Maybe, oh just maybe Rick, there's a reason Chinese consumers wouldn't be predisposed to buy cars from a Japanese company???
Do they really think we are that dumb??? |
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