Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese beetles---a good reason to feel doomerish
SpringCreekFarm wrote:
At the risk of sounding ridiculous ( like its never happened before...) I have a comment. I think that earlier on in the thead it was mentioned about keeping them inside somehow. Well how about one of those hoop buildings that farmers keep their hay in? You can get them with a white translucent fabric roof and you can get any size you want. It may not work for you Heineken, but if someone had the money and the space and was just starting out, they could erect one of these like a giant cold frame and just build all their gardening stuff in there. Problem is though you would be dependant on irrigation and perhaps air circulation would have to be thought out too. Anyway just throwing out ideas....
The sides (ground posts) are permanent, imparting strength to the structure while the hoops are removable ensuring a high degree of flexibility. The poly film covering is secured to the structure using rope making it easy to remove and reapply. When not in use, the film can be nested to one side on top of the ground posts. Additional benefits inherent with this design include increased ventilation, ability to erect on a slope and lack of equipment height restriction.
When I was a kid I dreamed of owning a big enclosed "hoop house" like the one at our local nursery, for insect-rearing purposes. _________________ "When men have come to the edge of a precipice, it is the lover of life
who has the spirit to leap backwards, and only the pessimist who continues to
believe in progress." - G. K. Chesterton
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4240 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese beetles---a good reason to feel doomerish
Someone mentioned that they think that the material for a tunnel is what stops the bugs from coming in...its blocking some sort of light that they need/want. It would be very interesting to see what the JB's would do if/when you try some sort of enclosure... _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6372 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese beetles---a good reason to feel doomerish
frankthetank wrote:
Heineken-Speaking of California.
Davis is pretty nice, a big biking/liberal college town, lots of money, nice delta breeze in the summer, etc.
Median house value (2005) $610,900
20% commute out of the city to work
About 15in of rain per year
Residents with income below the 50% of the poverty level in 1999: 16.4% compared to 6.3% for CA. link
BTW, not far from about 7 million other people: link
P.S. I love CA, I spent most of my life a few dozen miles from Davis. Maybe that's why I just don’t want to live there… _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6079 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese beetles---a good reason to feel doomerish
Madpaddy wrote:
Heineken says JBs are especially fond of blackberries.
I don't grow them, but they grow wild all around me. They are covered with JBs all summer long. However, there is still plenty of fruit, in this particular case. I suspect that if you grew a named variety intended for home culture, the JB problem with them would be worse; that's the usual pattern (wild plants being stronger than tamed ones).
When I'm collecting wild blackberries back in the bush (dressed in my suffocating "moon suit" against biting flies and snakes), I notice that the plants least covered by JBs are those growing among the trees, in partial shade (they also yield the biggest, choicest berries). This ties in with something Frank was saying about sunlight and JBs. JBs are attracted to sunlight, I believe. You see fewer of them on cloudy days.
Unfortunately, fruit trees also love sunlight. The question is whether they will be able to prosper under a thin, transluscent insect barrier, one that admits a good deal of light but that obviously can't admit full sunlight. The university research and the demonstration project (involving "tunnels") that Frank linked us to several pages back suggest that cherry trees, at least, can. And I intend to find out for myself after I build my "scaffolding" for insect barrier around my trees during the winter.
I'm also eager to experiment with bird netting on my scaffolding. I have a theory that bird-type netting with especially small holes might also exclude most JBs by interfering with their landing pattern, which as I said before is cautious and clumsy. Bird netting would be far more tree-friendly from sunlight and air-circulation perspectives. Also, it could stay up year-round. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Last edited by Heineken on Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4240 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese beetles---a good reason to feel doomerish
I've only been to S. CA. My sis use to live near Rancho Cucamonga. The state is awesome, with an astounding array of geography. If i could afford it, i'd be living out there growing citrus and Cherimoyas. I've heard others say that the one good thing about the desert like conditions out there is the lack of bugs/diseases. Not to mention the mild winters! I still hate winter. I wonder if JB's can survive when there is no snowcover and the temp drops below zero F??? _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6079 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese beetles---a good reason to feel doomerish
skyemoor wrote:
BerriesIn our effort to compile a list of JB resistant plants, common berries not bothered by JBs (according to: usagardener.com);
(Update: Blackberries removed per Heineken/Madpaddy) Black Currants, (Blueberries also removed through further research)
Strawberries (though JBs can feed on roots)
I will likely clear out my raspberries and replace them with something else, as we already have blueberries. Note the above list does not include less frequently mentioned berries, so consider it incomplete.
The vulnerability of strawberry roots to JB damage can be obviated by growing them in raised beds with heavy mulch (or fabric or plastic mulch), which is pretty much a necessity anyway to deal with weeds, which strawberries are not at all competitive with. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6372 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese beetles---a good reason to feel doomerish
Yea, there are fewer bugs and weeds. But it is essentially a desert.
With several dozen million people who want to fill their pools. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
The sides (ground posts) are permanent, imparting strength to the structure while the hoops are removable ensuring a high degree of flexibility. The poly film covering is secured to the structure using rope making it easy to remove and reapply. When not in use, the film can be nested to one side on top of the ground posts. Additional benefits inherent with this design include increased ventilation, ability to erect on a slope and lack of equipment height restriction.
When I was a kid I dreamed of owning a big enclosed "hoop house" like the one at our local nursery, for insect-rearing purposes.
No question such structures are practical and viable for things like strawberries and lettuce. The whole question, here, is whether fruit trees (dwarfs up to, say, 12 feet high) can be grown in hoops or tunnels or the wooden-post-based system I'm considering building. Fruit trees pose special challenges: they're high, they're wide, and they need maximum sunlight and air circulation.
Since JBs don't appear until June, though, the trees could receive full sunlight until then, at which point the "barrier" would be installed to whatever framework existed. I just don't know if things like plums and peaches will ripen in other than full, 100% sunlight. As I noted earlier, the research Frank linked us to showed that cherries could ripen in tunnels. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11881 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese beetles---a good reason to feel doomerish
A number of fruits will grow and fruit in 1/2 day sun, according to sources. It might be worthwhile to look into these and also to look at "cordon" style fruit tree training, which is training the trees to be very low and spreading. This style was mastered by the French, who were in the past probably the world's greatest fruit growers.
This way, you could train the trees to a convenient height, say six feet, to keep them within a 7 -8 foot tall structure, permanently erected and then seasonally covered with netting. A huge pain in the ass? You bet, but, at least you'd get fruit.
Fruits that will grow with 1/2 day sun or partial shade:
Apples, Aronia, Barberry, Hawthorn, Cornelian Cherry, Fig, Goumi, Highbush cranberry, Loquat, Medlar, Mountain ash, Mulberry, Pawpaw, Peach, Nectarine, Asian pear, European pear, Asian persimmon, American persimmon, Plum, Quince, Service tree, Fruiting rose, Chilean guava, Cranberry, Currants, Elderberry, Gooseberry, Honeyberry, Lingonberry, Seaberry and Wolfberry
Source: One Green World
Keep in mind fruits will bear less in shade and will prefer more sun in northern or colder regions, more shade in southern or hotter regions. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6079 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese beetles---a good reason to feel doomerish
Thanks for this extremely useful list, Ludi! I'm going to print it and put it in my "Plants" file. Yes, the cordon method or some other pruning system (like the "slender spindle" for apples) could serve to keep fruit-tree size in check and thus easier to enclose.
I'm not sure if 1/2 day of full sun is quite the same thing as what a plant might get under an insect barrier, though. Such plants could get a full day of partial sun. Is it equivalent, from a fruiting perspective? I don't know.
Probably at least some of the fruits on that list need full sun to achieve the best color and ripeness. Obviously this is an area for some very exciting research, especially since a lot of dreadful pests other than just JBs could be excluded by insect barriers. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1370 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese beetles---a good reason to feel doomerish
Continuing the berry list, has anyone had any problems with Juneberries and JBs? We have 2 Juneberry plants, though almost no JBs this year, so I can't tell from experience, and I can't find susceptibility info via Yahoo searches.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6079 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Japanese beetles---a good reason to feel doomerish
I don't know about Juneberries, but apparently people in the JB Belt can cross blueberries off their plant-candidate list: Link _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
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