[Shelter] Defense (THE gun thread)

eXpat · Intermediate Crude Joined: Jun 08, 2006 Posts: 971

lentilsmine thanks for the photos, i was thinking about getting that model of Glock and you just gave me the final push Smile

Regarding the Bersas, i totally agree that the Glock is more reliable and you may get the occasional lemon with Bersa , I do however own a Bersa 380 CC and i can say that i never had a malfunction with her. Considering that is an small caliber it has quite a kick though.
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Cloud9 · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Jul 26, 2006 Posts: 1036

Trips to the range are getting to be less and less. It is a 40 mile round trip for me. So, I was looking for something that would mimic my 45.

I bought an Air Soft Delta Elite Colt Auto. It is the same configuration as my 1911-A1. Neat little toy for honing point and shoot skills. It comes with a sticky target that I set up in my office.

ORCA

I suspect that a little work using a Dremel and some polishing coumpound would slick it up quite a bit.
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skyemoor

Bersa .380 Thunder article from Gunblast.com;

... since writing about the Bersa .380 Thunder auto pistol over five and one-half years ago, I still get more mail regarding that pistol than any other gun review that I have ever done. Typically, someone reads the review, buys the Bersa, and writes in to tell me how much they enjoy the little pistol. The article is still in our ARCHIVE section, as are all our articles, and we get new readers everyday who are reading the old reviews and writing in about them. A great deal of the email from new readers is about the Bersa. Almost all of the feedback on that gun has been positive. I wish that I could state that about every gun that I have reviewed, but I cannot. The typical Bersa buyer is one who wants a good, basic, affordable pistol for personal protection. I have often recommended the Bersa, as it fills that role nicely. Chambered for the .380 ACP cartridge, the Bersa has adequate power, acceptable accuracy, reliable function, relatively light weight, compact design, and all at an affordable price. The Bersa performs better than many .380 pistols that cost twice its price, or more. With the volume of mail received about this dandy little pistol, and in light of recent advancements in .380 ACP ammunition, I thought an update on the Bersa was in order.
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Jotapay · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 21, 2008 Posts: 389

I don't know how anyone in their right mind can say the .380 (or similar cartridges like the 9x18) has adequate stopping power. This omission would make me question the rest of the article's validity.

If my life depends on it, I'm going with .357 magnum. .40 S&W is my second choice due to the good power-carrying capacity ratio.

Muckingfess

Cashmere · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Mar 27, 2008 Posts: 1971

Muckingfess

ORCA

I agree about 'Stopping power". Its like the legend of Big Foot. Some swear its out there somewhere but no one can show a single hair.

I also dislike lugging around a full-size handgun while attempting to keep it concealed, or even one of it's stubby brothers that's been lopped off and inch. Not much better. I don't think I'll be engaging in a running gunfight. If I have the need to put 15 rounds down range something is seriously wrong with my shooting ability!

I'm certainly not a physicist. I've never done the math regarding ballistics and co-effecients. I have, however, attended a multitude of actual shootings out on the street. I can't recall a single one, regardless of calibur, that didn't take the steam right out of the "shootee". That's all the proof I need.

As far as the P3AT goes, I don't feel under armed considering the situations I'm most likely to encounter on a daily basis. Mostly it will be some stupid ass street punk attempting to jack me up for my wallet...or maybe my car.

The P3AT is not a "cheap" gun in that it isn't junk. It is a product of high-tech manufacturing that does not produce a weapon using materials you personally may associate with quality firearms. Besides, this is a simple, feather-light, easily concealed weapon for those times looking like Matt Dillion isn't conveniant.

I like mine...a lot.
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"If everything is going well, you obviously overlooked something."

Cloud9 · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Jul 26, 2006 Posts: 1036

Air Soft is a plastic gun that shoots a plastic 6 mm BB. It is something that you can shoot within the confines of your office without prompting a 911 call. Snap shooting is done without sights. It takes a few thousand rounds before the hand and the brain connect up to the point where you can hit what you are looking at.

The gun as sold by Walmart comes with a sticky target that captures the BB so it doesn't go flying around the office and tick off the cleaning lady.

A simple toy that improves eye hand coordination.

http://images.buzzillions.com/images_products/04/86/colt_delta_elite_spring_powered_airsoft_reviews_782413_300.jpg

Muckingfess

I too, am for open carry. However, we aren't there yet. In some states concealed carry means just that. No "print" of a weapon.

As far as the "top 3" mfgrs, look at Ruger's LCP. it is the P3AT. I don't know if Kel-tek makes it for them, but I've heard that they do. I was looking at the Ruger when a friend suggested the Kel-tek. As I respect his opinion (he has 20+ years in LE, the last 5 in SWAT), I looked at both. I had the opportunity to shoot both. Identical results. I chose the Kel-tek for the parkerized finish, not available on the Ruger. JMHO, YMMV.

Ruger LCP
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ALBY

LMFDO at the stopping power rant.

There is no scientific study on humans. Even if there were, there is such a wide variety of humans out there that the data would be meaningless.

So I reckon...

Having any gun is a good thing.

having a gun that WORKS all the time is a plus. same goes for being able to handle and hit with said gun.

and

Having a gun with a caliber that starts with .4 is a better thing.

AgentR

Heaviest caliber that you can shoot well. For me, 9mm fits bill; lots can shoot 45s with no problems.
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jato

Psychological stop: Totally unpredictable.

Physical stop:
1. Central nervous system destruction.
2. Blood loss resulting in brain/oxygen starvation.

To a lesser degree pelvic bone destruction can negate the skeletal support structure and take a person down to the ground. Just remember a person can still fight while on the ground.

My 2 cents carry a handgun round which can penetrate common barriers and still penetrate deep into human tissue. The bullet may be required to travel through an arm or other barrier THEN into the chest cavity from oblique angles. Usually the “heavy/slow” category penetrate the deepest for a given pistol caliber.

My personal favorites are:
9x19mm 147 grain HP
.40 SW 180 grain HP
.45 ACP 230 grain HP

.38 special 158 grain LSWCHP (these do not speed load well IMO)
.357 magnum 158 grain HP

I don’t think the .380 and smaller cartridges are up for the self-defense task, but it is far better than nothing.

Most firearm disciplines I know teach aiming for center available mass since it is the largest target (easiest to hit). Other more specific target areas may include the brain, heart, spine and pelvic girdle.

IMO the best website for “stopping power” education is:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/tactical.htm
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Karlos4 · Tar Sands Joined: May 22, 2008 Posts: 28

Impressive posts. I live in a country, Spain, where firearms are absolutely forbidden for civilians. But I've come to think that I'll need some protection for my family in a SHTF scenario.
I got some good knifes. Want to get a bow, but even for that here you need a license. I'm joining an archery club in september, and I'll learn how to use it. Better than nothing.
In a very dire scenario, I guess people would get guns anyhow. My best chances are to get small calibre weapons: a 22 revolver and, maybe, a 22 rifle. The more common gun here are hunting shotguns, two-barreled, cal. 12. It must not be so difficult to get one in the black market, a weapon with real stopping power.
In recent years, we have a lot of gangs from eastern countries. People with combat experience, most of them from Kosovo, armed with Makarov pistols and AK-47 rifles. Guess ordinary spaniards are going to have a hard time if security forces are not up to the task.