How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
Quote:
Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
Thu Jul 20, 11:46 AM ET
A Spanish company claimed on Thursday to have developed a method of breeding plankton and turning the marine plants into oil, providing a potentially inexhaustible source of clean fuel.
Vehicle tests are some time away because the company, Bio Fuel Systems, has not yet tried refining the dark green coloured crude oil phytoplankton turn into, a spokesman said.
Bio Fuel Systems is a wholly Spanish firm, formed this year in eastern Spain after three years of research by scientists and engineers connected with the University of Alicante.
"Bio Fuel Systems has developed a process that converts energy, based on three elements: solar energy, photosynthesis and an electromagnetic field," it said in a press dossier.
"That process allows us to obtain biopetroleum, equivalent to that of fossil origin."
Phytoplankton, like other plants, absorb carbon dioxide as they grow. Scientists have examined the possibility of stimulating growth of the single cell plants as a means of reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.
CO2, liberated by burning fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas, is widely held responsible for global warming.
Bio Fuel Systems said its new fuel would reduce CO2, was free of other contaminants like sulphur dioxide and would be cheaper than fossil oil is now.
"Our system of bioconversion is about 400 times more productive than any other plant-based system producing oil or ethanol," it said, referring to currently available biofuels made from plants like maize or oilseeds.
Bio Fuel Systems is working with scientists at the University of Alicante on the project. It has drawn up industrial plans to make the fuel and says it will be able to start continuous production in 14 to 18 months.
Joined: Sep 06, 2004 Posts: 5315 Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
Now, now, it's bad enough calling the plebs "sheeple", but to start calling them "plankton" may be over stepping the mark. _________________ "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
Nearly 50 views and still no Doomer posting to say how this is all rubbish that means nothing? I'm losing faith in this forum.
Where have all the Doomers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Doomers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Doomers gone?
All committed suicide every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
Quote:
Now, now, it's bad enough calling the plebs "sheeple", but to start calling them "plankton" may be over stepping the mark. Smile
I don't know about that.
Plankton:
Quote:
The collection of small or microscopic organisms, including algae and protozoans, that float or drift in great numbers in fresh or salt water, especially at or near the surface, and serve as food for fish and other larger organisms.
Millions of Americans go into debt. One form of this debt is to the mafia. If you fail to repay or get on their bad side in another way, you may find yourself 'swimming with the fishes' (...that float or drift in great numbers in...water). With the upcoming depression, we will likely see an increasing number of 'merican plankton (until, of course, Peak Mafia, Peak Depression and Peak 'Merican Plankton in 2034).
If you manage to escape floating in the water being eaten by fish, you will find yourself being eaten by the Big Fish, ie the government, after the peak. You will live off of the sun (indirectly through grass, leaves and the occasional wheat, grain, corn, etc meal) and then provide food for the Big Fish.
Either way, you are being eaten by a fish and will be in a sea of others in your situation, metaphorically or actually. So I guess 'plankton' isn't too far off...or I could just be Fark in the head. _________________ I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
Joined: Jun 28, 2005 Posts: 511 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
slick wrote:
Nearly 50 views and still no Doomer posting to say how this is all rubbish that means nothing? I'm losing faith in this forum.
Well, let me restore your faith. Here it goes:
Quote:
The microscopic plants that underpin all life in the oceans are likely to be destroyed by global warming, a study has found.
Scientists have discovered a way that the vital plankton of the oceans can be starved of nutrients as a result of the seas getting warmer. They believe the findings have catastrophic implications for the entire marine habitat, which ultimately relies on plankton at the base of the food chain.
The study is also potentially devastating because it has thrown up a new "positive feedback" mechanism that could result in more carbon dioxide ending up in the atmosphere to cause a runaway greenhouse effect.
Scientists led by Jef Huisman of the University of Amsterdam have calculated that global warming, which is causing the temperature of the sea surface to rise, will also interfere with the vital upward movement of nutrients from the deep sea.
These nutrients, containing nitrogen, phosphorus and iron, are vital food for phytoplankton. If the supply is interrupted the plants die off, which prevents them from absorbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
Bio Fuel Systems will still have plenty of time to make a profit of course, but the claim that plankton is
Quote:
potentially inexhaustible source of clean fuel
may well be a bit beside the truth. And isn't it remarkable: they're trying to make plankton into precisely the one substance which in the end will kill off plankton. Isn't humankind just spectacular? I wonder how long it will take before some nanotech lab comes up with a technology to produce plankton!
Oh, btw, your original post leaves out the URL of the news story. But, I found it at Reuters.
Finding that, I'm sorry to say, you also posted this story in full, which for copy right reasons is not allowed. Please check Code of Conduct, which states:
Quote:
If you wish to quote a post or article, do not quote the entire post/article. Only include the part of the post text to which you are responding. With articles, post a short paragraph and provide a link.
So please... _________________ The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6018 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha aha ahhaha hahah ahah ahahah ahah ahahahah ahahah
That's my official response to the plankton oil story. We'll never hear about it again. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
Since oil is made by the decomposition of such organisms over millions of years, concentrating the energy along the way, doesn't this mean you would need to fetch a boatload of plankton to make a barrel of oil? One wonders what the EROEI is on this. I don't doubt you can make oil from plankton. Just not a lot probably. Would like to hear more about this though.
Joined: Jun 28, 2005 Posts: 511 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
mattduke wrote:
I couldn't find a website.
All I can find is a UK based firm, called Biofuel Systems, which has its website here. No mention of this next Plan 9 project for saving mankind.
What's 'biofuel' in Spanish? 'bio combustibile'?
Edit: well, at least the Spanish source of the story is here. Front page of this news outlet doesn't look too reliable.
Second edit: I'm being told that terra.es is a Spanish sort of Yahoo. So I'm being wrong here in judging them as not too reliable. _________________ The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.
Al Bartlett
Last edited by waegari on Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:30 am; edited 2 times in total
Joined: Jun 28, 2005 Posts: 511 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
emailking wrote:
Since oil is made by the decomposition of such organisms over millions of years, concentrating the energy along the way, doesn't this mean you would need to fetch a boatload of plankton to make a barrel of oil? One wonders what the EROEI is on this. I don't doubt you can make oil from plankton. Just not a lot probably. Would like to hear more about this though.
And as always, time and scale: how much time would you need to build enough production capacity for covering, say, 10% of present fuel demand, not to mention 20 or even 40%? I'm afraid, it would take quite a couple of years, and I'm being optimistic here. And even if global warming would leave all plankton unscathed, contrary to the Huisman findings, what would be the environmental effect, if mankind started fishing for plankton at a large scale? _________________ The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
Bottom line is more information is going to be needed before we can say how fast this can be ramped up.
It is giong to need Giant plankton farms to grow the plankton and the plankton to oil machines. These will take just as much time to produce as nuclear energy, solar, or wind takes to ramp up for electric cars.
Also they'll have to see if the oil from plankton can be refined with current refineries?
So once again it comes down to how fast can these ramp up?? They're gonna be just as slow as solar, wind, nuclear, coal to oil, etc.
But, because of coal, nuclear, and finds like the plankton to oil I think after about 20-30 VERY difficult years, a Greater Depression that will be worse than Depression I, and WWIII that the future looks bright!!
Let's just all hope we get through the Depression and WWIII alive.
Well then there's Global warming that we'll all have to try to deal with.
The resultant product is much more productive and profitable than any other developed until now in the biofuels sector.
It assures a production 400 times more than any other biofuel know to date and it is based on the utilization of plants, including algae. On the other hand, it doesn't require large surfaces for its production. In a surface of 52.000 km2 (twice the area of Comunidad Valenciana), can be obtained 95 million barrels of biopetroleum per day, that is, all world oil production and at a price substantially lower than fossil oil. _________________ "You've got hardly any theory of social organization, astonishingly backward economic systems, no grasp of the machinery of historical prediction, and very little knowledge about yourselves." - Carl Sagan
Last edited by Spartan2 on Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
Spartan2 wrote:
On the other hand, it doesn't require large surfaces for its production. In a surface of 52.000 km2 (twice the area of Comunidad Valenciana), can be obtained 95 million barrels of biopetroleum per day, that is, all world oil production and at a price substantially lower than fossil oil.
Is that 52,000 km squared? That is pretty huge and you must all agree that will take time to build.
I have been a fan of ALGAE to oil for some time. It also requires ALGAE FARMS like these plankton are going to require PLANKTON farms.
Algae to oil is very EROEI positive, so I'm sure this is as well.
I have no doubt that Algae and now Plankton will have a huge influence on our energy availability in the future.
Like I said earlier it will be time consuming and once again we still have a societal peak oil/economic collapse in the near term that will occur.
Like Robert Hirsch says in his DOE study we need atleast 20 years to prepare for peak oil. I think peak oil is here now so well 20 years from now maybe things will get better??
I do admit this plankton to oil technology sounds awesome! Let's hope it gets a lot of funding because algae to oil just can't seem to get going.
Chuck
Last edited by chuck6877 on Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: Jun 28, 2005 Posts: 511 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish firm claims it can make oil from plankton
Spartan2 wrote:
In a surface of 52.000 km2 (twice the area of Comunidad Valenciana), can be obtained 95 million barrels of biopetroleum per day, that is, all world oil production and at a price substantially lower than fossil oil.
Then let's just hope Jef Huisman is wrong. Which we all should anyway... _________________ The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.
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