I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
The PNW was a nice place up until about 20 years ago.
Western Washington From Bellingham to Olympia is a slow motion disaster. The fisheries of Puget Sound are decimated. All that's left is flatfish and bullheads that the Asian immigrants are cleaning out as fast as they can. Hood Canal not only has no fisheries, it's actually dead. There's no more dissolved oxygen left.
Any open space that is currently left (not much) is slated for a subdivision or strip mall. The scale and scope of the development that has taken place around here in the last 10-15 years is mind numbing.
Mature second growth or old growth forests are completely clear cut and then paved over in to a subdivision and given names like "Audobon Ridge." The wildlife is displaced and quickly ran over on the highway. Predators like black bears and cougars are usually shot on site.
I lived in a nice quiet neighborhood next to a creek a few years back. Within a year or so, the neighborhood became a ghetto. I had to move because I never made the decision to move to Mexico, but mexico moved to me and I don't speak spanish. I walk through Seattle everyday and I see campesinos who have just got off the bus or train or whatever. I don't understand how they get from the mexican border to Seattle so quickly, but they're coming fast in exponential numbers.
If you travel in to the rural areas, think meth heads, meth labs and junkies. Two hikers (mother and daughter) were recently shot dead in cold blood while hiking to a popular lake. The murders have not been solved.
The traffic is some of the worst in the nation. Public transport is literally non existent, except for a few buses. If you ride a bike, there's a very good chance you will be runover, maimed or killed by some asswipe sipping a latte and talking on a cellphone. Seattle somehow got a reputation for being "progressive" and "environmental." That couldn't be farther from the truth. It's all window dressing like the clearcut named "Audobon Ridge." This town knows nothing of ecology or the "environment" except maybe some of the old-timer Indians.
These "environmentalists" are mostly a bunch of self-righteous liberal types who love nature as long as it doesn't affect their property value or view. They buy a pair of boots at REI and go hiking once a year in their spotless SUV. Their idea of "saving the earth" is listening to Al Gore tell them to check their tire pressure to prevent global warming.
It's an orwellian death trap. Most of the people that think this is a great place to move, are moving from places that are utter hell holes due to overpopulation, pollution and resource depletion. Therefore, the PNW is quickly suffering the same fate.
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:44 am Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
seldom_seen summed it up. Better for California folks to move elsewhere. I'm thinking Florida or New York or Nebraska. Yeah, the PNW is a bad place to be come TEOTWAWKI. Come visit, but for gawdsake, don't move here.
Joined: Mar 05, 2006 Posts: 420 Location: East edge of the Milky Way
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:19 am Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
Jdumars, Olympic Peninsula is beautiful for sure, but one serious flaw if there is some type of SHTF scenario. There is a US naval base there for nuclear attack submarines on the Peninsula. It is considered 'hardened' by the military against nuclear strikes, but is considered a MAIN target by the Chinese military. How many warheads will be lobbed there to take it out? The resultant fallout would be horrendous...
The area sure is beautiful, but I don't think I'd want to be downwind...
Alex.
Joined: Oct 03, 2004 Posts: 550 Location: Washington State
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
Our enemies won't need to hit Bangor when TSHTF. Our own boomers (ballistic missile subs) have to target their base so they can't be found. Just one more reason to stay away. But if yo do come, by all means settle on the west side of the cascade range. It's a much better climate for liberals. _________________ This is where everybody puts profound words written by another...or not so profound words written by themselves
Highlander 2007
Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 1618 Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
Come on folks, you all know the PNW is the best place to be. Why?
Think about it...
SouthWest- dry arid and impossible to grow food without massive fossil fuel injections
SE Gulf States- need I say it?...hurricaines
Urban North East- Overpopulated Hell
Rural NorthEast- great except the freezing cold and the blazing summer heat. Lots of energy input to survive...shorter growing season.
Plains- ditto the climate, plus no forest to heat the house in the winter.
That leaves the PNW
It has-
1 Year round growing season (no snow west of Cascades).
2 Abundant rainfall, mosisture for farming and drinking water/sanitation.
3 Plenty of renewable timber for heating and some construction
4 Cities that are progressive and promote mass transit, green building, alt. energy, biking etc. I'm gonna have to say that Portland beats the other three (SF, Seattle and Vancouver) hands down in this department.
5 Plenty of midsize towns (Bellingham, Olympia, Port Angeles, Port Townsend, Eugene, Astoria, Forks---that ones for you JDumars) that are just right for the coming apocolypse.
6 Hunting and fishing opportunities abound.
7 You can grow Kale in your front yard without freaking out the neighbors. Try that in Texas.
8 We love to grow our own food, shop at farmer's markets, eat good food at great restaurants, drink homebrew and smoke homegrown. Its an epicurian's paradise.
7 A thriving DIY scene (Do-it-yourself) that encourages people to learn basic skills such as carpentry, plumbing, gardening, bike repair, etc etc.
8 Everyone is going to come here due to above mentioned problems. That is one of the main reasons for the runup in prices of houses. People want a piece before its too late. Get yours whie you can.
Joined: Apr 28, 2006 Posts: 2897 Location: East Texas
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
thuja wrote:
SE Gulf States- need I say it?...hurricaines
Awww, its not that bad.
Quote:
7 You can grow Kale in your front yard without freaking out the neighbors. Try that in Texas.
Most won't notice or care. A few, "select" neighborhoods would likely go ballistic, but most people don't live in them. Biggest problem with Kale would be the heat; you'd have to grow it in the Oct -> April window..
Backyards are more favored for vegetables in general though. _________________ abundance fleeting
men falling like hungry leaves
decay masters all
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
thuja wrote:
4 Cities that are progressive and promote mass transit, green building, alt. energy, biking etc. I'm gonna have to say that Portland beats the other three (SF, Seattle and Vancouver) hands down in this department.
Face it man. Despite a few token gestures toward sustainability, those places are all grossly overpopulated hell holes. Portland has nearly twenty-four hour a day rush hour. I tried to drive through there at 3pm yesterday and got stuck in rush hour traffic for almost an hour. The Everett/Seattle/Tacoma megalopolis is clearly the most hideous, but even Olympia grossly exceeds it's carrying capacity. I believe pretty strongly that the land of mold has more people than it can accomodate and all those Seattle yuppies are highly likely to show up on your door step. _________________ "So while you sit and whistle Dixie with your money and your power.
I can hear the flowers a-growin in the rubble of the towers.
I hear leaders quit their lying
I hear babies quit their crying.
I hear soldiers quit their dying, one and all." - OCMS
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
I've lived in the Area for 21 years.
The area is not self-sufficient. The economy runs on a housing boom, inherited .com wealth, and natural resource extraction.
Housing Boom: Home prices are sky-high. Liberal state benefits mean a boom in campesinos- labor market is 50-75% illegal. You can get a driver's license without having to prove you're a citizen, for instance. Most new development pushes out wild areas, and are comprised mainly of the worst aspects of modern shake 'n' bake architectural models. Cities are growing without respect to livability.
.com, .mil wealth: Seattle and the surrounding area is filled with idiots that code- abstract thinkers, hipsters, and maroons. Star-Trekians. Transplants from Hyderabad. Russian mini-tycoons. The crush of domestic migrants. Windows/Gates empire built on hugely wasteful energy processes. Second problem is a GM-like culture of Boeing and aerospace builders. The military-industrial complex looms large. Large military bases mean large cornerstones of population incapable of intelligent thought. A lot of brainwashed people who happen to believe they think unconventionally when in fact, they are conventional thinkers on a caffeine buzz. Extensive militarization. Military bases across the state. Land based nuclear missile silos in East. Nuclear submarine and tactical nuke-carrying Airforce bases in West. A sizeable population of rednecks in rural areas.
The people are idiots. Seattlites are possessed of massive hubris. There is no enlightenment. These are typical urban and suburban morons who have no connection to natural existence, but BELIEVE they do. God-believers abound. Civic government is abysmal. Personal social interaction is highly cybernetic. Every flavor of nascent liberalism exists. Cultural unity is non-existent. Civic identity is fractionalizing.
Seattle is a boomtown. Early on last century came the claimstaking gold-rushers, refugees of an economic implosion. History repeats itself.
The environment is changing. As the planet warms, less snow in Cascades, and more rain will come, bringing with it the conditions for disaster. Densely packed tree plantations are ripe for attack by biological invaders. Waterways are choked with invasive species. Much Eastern Washington farmland is unsustainably farmed. Widespread use of toxic waste on agricultural land. Steady loss of agricultural base in west. Large proportion of crops raised for export, meaning much food has to be imported. Rapid population growth has incurred the effect of horizontal growth. Urban corridor now a hundred or more miles long. More than one instance of problems meeting water needs in metropolitan area. Natural resource extraction: Cornerstone of the old economy, fishing and trees. Typical situation is more people, greater rates of extraction, less available resources for all. Overshoot. Overshoot.
Government: State government is a fiasco, a terminally deadlocked legislature, politicans are flavorless disciples of industry.
A fiscal policy that finds new ways to waste money even after gaining huge surpluses in the boom times. Every year, new appendages to a strangling civic infrastructure.
As money, energy, and water become scarce elsewhere, people will move here. Its like that scene in dances with wolves where kicking bird asks Costner how many white men are coming. "Like the stars". They will keep coming and coming and coming.
It is the nature of people to find a nice place and then utterly ruin it by inhabiting it. Since the growth of people is now exponential, the list of nice places is diminishing rapidly. Add the pressure cooker of imploding ecology AND economy and the picture looks bleak.
On the other hand, most people that come here don't like the weather. Its cold, rainy and shitty for 9 months of the year, at the very least. Warming means even more shittiness.
Joined: Nov 08, 2005 Posts: 264 Location: The Maple State
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
Bellingham is also right against the big smoke of Vancouver (BC) which is following LA and its growth=decline unfortunately (Vancouver is a generation behind). Several Americians at my work near Vancouver cross the border from Bellingham area every weekday.
Vancouver Island is my spot as well. Have a house there and looking for some fertile land in the area but yes it is damm expensive.
Wow! I was just reading this post and thinking, "I wonder what La Crosse gets?" That was too easy. I had a feeling about La Crosse and sunshine considering how frustrated I get trying to use my solar oven. Bright sunshine at 8 a.m. and totally overcast by 10 a.m. We had a spectacularly beautiful and sunny fall day today.
Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 1618 Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: Re: #500- Who else is headed for the Pacific Northwest?
BlisteredWhippet wrote:
I've lived in the Area for 21 years.
The area is not self-sufficient. The economy runs on a housing boom, inherited .com wealth, and natural resource extraction.
Housing Boom: Home prices are sky-high. Liberal state benefits mean a boom in campesinos- labor market is 50-75% illegal. You can get a driver's license without having to prove you're a citizen, for instance. Most new development pushes out wild areas, and are comprised mainly of the worst aspects of modern shake 'n' bake architectural models. Cities are growing without respect to livability.
.com, .mil wealth: Seattle and the surrounding area is filled with idiots that code- abstract thinkers, hipsters, and maroons. Star-Trekians. Transplants from Hyderabad. Russian mini-tycoons. The crush of domestic migrants. Windows/Gates empire built on hugely wasteful energy processes. Second problem is a GM-like culture of Boeing and aerospace builders. The military-industrial complex looms large. Large military bases mean large cornerstones of population incapable of intelligent thought. A lot of brainwashed people who happen to believe they think unconventionally when in fact, they are conventional thinkers on a caffeine buzz. Extensive militarization. Military bases across the state. Land based nuclear missile silos in East. Nuclear submarine and tactical nuke-carrying Airforce bases in West. A sizeable population of rednecks in rural areas.
The people are idiots. Seattlites are possessed of massive hubris. There is no enlightenment. These are typical urban and suburban morons who have no connection to natural existence, but BELIEVE they do. God-believers abound. Civic government is abysmal. Personal social interaction is highly cybernetic. Every flavor of nascent liberalism exists. Cultural unity is non-existent. Civic identity is fractionalizing.
Seattle is a boomtown. Early on last century came the claimstaking gold-rushers, refugees of an economic implosion. History repeats itself.
The environment is changing. As the planet warms, less snow in Cascades, and more rain will come, bringing with it the conditions for disaster. Densely packed tree plantations are ripe for attack by biological invaders. Waterways are choked with invasive species. Much Eastern Washington farmland is unsustainably farmed. Widespread use of toxic waste on agricultural land. Steady loss of agricultural base in west. Large proportion of crops raised for export, meaning much food has to be imported. Rapid population growth has incurred the effect of horizontal growth. Urban corridor now a hundred or more miles long. More than one instance of problems meeting water needs in metropolitan area. Natural resource extraction: Cornerstone of the old economy, fishing and trees. Typical situation is more people, greater rates of extraction, less available resources for all. Overshoot. Overshoot.
Government: State government is a fiasco, a terminally deadlocked legislature, politicans are flavorless disciples of industry.
A fiscal policy that finds new ways to waste money even after gaining huge surpluses in the boom times. Every year, new appendages to a strangling civic infrastructure.
As money, energy, and water become scarce elsewhere, people will move here. Its like that scene in dances with wolves where kicking bird asks Costner how many white men are coming. "Like the stars". They will keep coming and coming and coming.
It is the nature of people to find a nice place and then utterly ruin it by inhabiting it. Since the growth of people is now exponential, the list of nice places is diminishing rapidly. Add the pressure cooker of imploding ecology AND economy and the picture looks bleak.
On the other hand, most people that come here don't like the weather. Its cold, rainy and shitty for 9 months of the year, at the very least. Warming means even more shittiness.
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