I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:04 am Post subject: Long live free California!!!
I mean why is California in that union again?
It has only 2 senators... same as Idaho which is a mere 50 times smaller
It is raped of its resources and food and fruits... providing most of it for the rest of America.
It is culturally separate from the rest, with soon spanish the official language.
As a separate country it would stand tall as 5th or 6th in the world.
It would be by definition different from Mexico and the California separatism shouldn't be mixed up with some willingness to go back to the (dump) that is Mexico now.
Give it 10 years and someone will shout "Long live a free California!!!" the same way De Gaulles shouted "Long live free Quebec!" in 1967...
California was annexed by the US without any referendum after a short lived revolt of a few americans who settled in spanish territory. I am sure a referendum would have resulted in most of the California people at the time wanting to simply live in their own country vs. being annexed.
I guess we'll never know but why not find out soon with another referendum? I guess the US is ok with democracy but within the confines of the 2 party system and dogmatic rejection of the willingness of a (hispanic) minority to go free...
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6662 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Long live free California!!!
*drums fingers on desktop, awaiting SPG's response* _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 2123 Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Long live free California!!!
The original United States were a collection of equally sovereign states; the size of their respective populations was irrelevant. Perhaps now that the sovereignty of individual states has been minimized over the past 140+ years, an argument can be made that California is somehow more important than Idaho. Putting any such thing into effect, of course, changes the original charter of the US to the point where it might just as well be completely scrapped.
Besides, if California were to secede, would the people of Northern California want to associate with those of Southern California?
Wouldn't it more likely break off into two republics - Norcal and Aztlan?
neocone wrote:
It is raped of its ressources and food and fruits... providing most of it for the rest of America.
Uh ... don't the rest of us PAY for that food? You make it sound like California gets nothing in exchange. _________________ “Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Long live free California!!!
TheTurtle wrote:
The original United States were a collection of equally sovereign states; the size of their respective populations was irrelevant. Perhaps now that the sovereignty of individual states has been minimized over the past 140+ years, an argument can be made that California is somehow more important than Idaho. Putting any such thing into effect, of course, changes the original charter of the US to the point where it might just as well be completely scrapped.
Besides, if California were to secede, would the people of Northern California want to associate with those of Southern California?
Wouldn't it more likely break off into two republics - Norcal and Aztlan?
neocone wrote:
It is raped of its ressources and food and fruits... providing most of it for the rest of America.
Uh ... don't the rest of us PAY for that food? You make it sound like California gets nothing in exchange.
I doubt Cali will secede. Pple have been trying that in Texas forever and we are no closer to being our own country. Not that I want that, but pple keep talking about it, but you never see any action.
Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Long live free California!!!
Max power Long live! The NW IS California now. Day late a dollar short. Makes me want to vomit out all my internal organs. _________________ "Crush the Cornucopians, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women".
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:03 am Post subject: Re: Long live free California!!!
Quote:
"I mean why is California in that union again? "
-Because 20-25% of our electricity is generated from polluting coal plants in NV and AZ.
-Because 85% of our Natural Gas comes from out of state
-Because a good portion of our water (beyond our allotment actually) comes from the Colorado River
-Because half our oil (hey atleast on this we're above average) comes from somewhere else.
Simply put we're stuck just as much in this sinking ship as the other 49 states. Cali never grew up separate from the Union and Mexico's and Spain's involvement doesnt count. They never ventured more than a day's hike from the coastal areas and then from San Fran and south.
We need you (other 49) as much as you need us. Just ask the feds. We get a dollar back for every $1.15 we contribute.
Where will the future lead us? Trouble I expect. You folks south of the Tehachapis (S. Cali for you non-locals) are hosed. Everything you need (except the sun) has to be imported from somewhere else. The central valley is almost as screwed with your insane demographic trends, over population tendencies and backwards looking leadership in a place that exceeds 110 on a given summers day. The bay area would be better off except for the simple fact that there are too many of you and too few resources. Maybe with half the population and good relations with areas in the Central valley nearby you guys could keep it together for some time to come. What's that leave? The Sierra Nevada, the far north (Klamath area) and the North Coast. I think these areas are the sucessful areas solong as they arent overrun. _________________ UNplanning the future...
http://unplanning.blogspot.com
"I no longer go to Dodger games, or the L.A. Philharmonic…. I only go out to dinner at restaurants within two miles of my house."
"I'd rather stick hot pokers in my eyes than drive downtown from Santa Monica on a weeknight. Saturday nights are almost as bad. Therefore, I go to Disney Hall only on Sunday."
"We learned fast how hard it is to go east in the evening. The first few times we tried it, we assumed there was a big rig overturned somewhere …. We were then, and remain still, incredulous that an entire major American city has allowed itself to become paralyzed every evening."
"If you think the Westside traffic is bad now, just wait until all the condo and office projects currently in various stages of development in Beverly Hills and Century City get completed! I cannot understand how these projects get approved without more realistic consideration of traffic impact, but they do. I always have the feeling that if the right palms get greased, the projects get approved."
Los Angeles: Mecca of the car culture. It's a gigantic monument symbolizing the cheap light sweet crude era. We live by our wheels, and we'll die by them.
Back in the day, this really was a great place to live. Unfortunately, the word got out, and everybody came here. It's been a sad thing to watch the quality of life decline over the years. I guess it can only get worse.
We're not leaving, though. I'll probably have my ashes scattered out the window of a car as it crawls slowly down the San Diego Freeway. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
"I no longer go to Dodger games, or the L.A. Philharmonic…. I only go out to dinner at restaurants within two miles of my house."
"I'd rather stick hot pokers in my eyes than drive downtown from Santa Monica on a weeknight. Saturday nights are almost as bad. Therefore, I go to Disney Hall only on Sunday."
"We learned fast how hard it is to go east in the evening. The first few times we tried it, we assumed there was a big rig overturned somewhere …. We were then, and remain still, incredulous that an entire major American city has allowed itself to become paralyzed every evening."
"If you think the Westside traffic is bad now, just wait until all the condo and office projects currently in various stages of development in Beverly Hills and Century City get completed! I cannot understand how these projects get approved without more realistic consideration of traffic impact, but they do. I always have the feeling that if the right palms get greased, the projects get approved."
Los Angeles: Mecca of the car culture. It's a gigantic monument symbolizing the cheap light sweet crude era. We live by our wheels, and we'll die by them.
Back in the day, this really was a great place to live. Unfortunately, the word got out, and everybody came here. It's been a sad thing to watch the quality of life decline over the years. I guess it can only get worse.
We're not leaving, though. I'll probably have my ashes scattered out the window of a car as it crawls slowly down the San Diego Freeway.
With your PO knowledge why wouldnt you leave?
I find this quite odd. _________________ It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4847 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: West L.A. traffic approaching total dysfunctionality
I was out there in the early 90's. I remember being on the I10 (i think) from where my sister lived in the San Gabriel mtns going west towards LA and coming back. It was insane. I couldn't imagine what it must be like now.
Denver is also a horrible place to drive. Your either stopped for another pileup or your going 90. _________________ Clothing should be optional.
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: West L.A. traffic approaching total dysfunctionality
Americans have it coming. We think we can live fast and cheap. We think we are cool. We think we are better than anyone else. That include the young, the old, the poor and the rich. Everyone is too busy buying crap and running around looking for the next thrill to bother with basics--like growing up, getting serious, taking charge of their lives and governments.
We will never overcome the mountain of crap we have shat on this pretty planet. In fact we are piling more on every day. It was stupid when I was kid years ago and it remains stupid today.
I tried to do something about it. I left suburbia for the city and gave away my car. I rehabbed a loft and priced myself out of the cool generation. Then I moved to the country to try to kickstart an agarian revolution. That failed. Then I built a cohousing community in town on a tired old polluted downtown timber mill. The front window looks out on highway 101. I watch the cars all day from my desk where I work. They looked stretched from a distance at 65mph. Some kind of a optical illusion I think. I can twist my head and look out of the back of the building on Humbuldt Bay Wildlife refugee and see ducks in the air. I'm lucky but I'm moving. Can't stand this child-friendly crap any longer.
I just bought a pistol. A SigSauer 226 9mm. I have land and will build a house on in the middle of nowhere in paradise in coastal california. Next I by a shotgun. Better not blame me for this mess. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: West L.A. traffic approaching total dysfunctionality
Zardoz wrote:
"If you think the Westside traffic is bad now, just wait until all the condo and office projects currently in various stages of development in Beverly Hills and Century City get completed! I cannot understand how these projects get approved without more realistic consideration of traffic impact, but they do."
anyone else have flashbacks of SimCity when reading this part _________________ Angry yet?
Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: Re: West L.A. traffic approaching total dysfunctionality
Well, so goes LA so goes the world as it is the epitome of the profligate oil, advertising, and debt-fuel American corporatist consumer culture that is sterilizing and homogenizing the world.
This has been going on for at least a century gradually, but really picked up pace in the 40's. The sickness is in people's heads as they will perpetuate the same conditions whereever they go to escape in their bloated suvs, demanding to be fenced in around their oversized sheetrock and particle board isolated inefficient
boxes, and surrounded by ugly shops too venal to be tacky with the familiar logos catering to obesity and indulgence.
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I guess the US is ok with democracy but within the confines of the 2 party system and dogmatic rejection of the willingness of a (hispanic) minority to go free...
ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
