Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: Efficient Market
I was searching for information on "liquified coal" and discovered this article Free Market Energy Policy by Doug Bandow from the Cato Institute. It was published at a Conservative Christian website.
Mr.Bandow writes that more free markets would take care of our Oil and Energy problems.
I do wonder at his logic. He doesn't ask why we use so much energy and how. I mean, most of the suburbs we've built since 1945 would not have been built if the residents there had to pay for the massive expensive of highways, roads, sewers, water lines, and other infrastructure spread out over such low population densities.
This article was published at the Center for Reformed Theology and Apologetics website. I looked at more of the website. The worldly issues it presents a focus on are abortion, homosexuality, and the theory of evolution. I find it interesting that this organization is so strongly allied with The Cato Institute. They show a strong disinterest in more relevant questions about the way we live. A strong desire to remain unconscious of the world around them and their influence on it.
It is as though they feel so entitled to so many comforts(much more unflappable than the sense of entitlement many socialists express directly) that they are willing to forego rationality to continue believing they deserve them. Just follow the right rituals, and every family can have at least two cars, a house in the suburbs, a riding lawn mower, a big screen tv, a fast growing Stock Portfolio, and not have to live near too-many-black-people or the workers who make most of the merchandise we consume. I realise Christianity means we don't have to be Jewish anymore, but does anyone remember the story about the Golden Calf?
Joined: Aug 19, 2004 Posts: 1786 Location: Republic of Texas
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Efficient Market
bulldozer wrote:
I find it interesting that this organization is so strongly allied with The Cato Institute. They show a strong disinterest in more relevant questions about the way we live.
Cherry-picking.
Libertarianism is based upon rationality. Christians don't like that. _________________ Conform . Consume . Obey .
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13181 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Efficient Market
What is the Biblical support for free markets, specifically, what did Jesus teach about free markets?
As I recall, Jesus is recorded as saying "If you wish to be perfect, sell all you have and give to the poor, and follow me." Not much there about free markets.... _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Efficient Market
bulldozer wrote:
It is as though they feel so entitled to so many comforts(much more unflappable than the sense of entitlement many socialists express directly) that they are willing to forego rationality to continue believing they deserve them. Just follow the right rituals, and every family can have at least two cars, a house in the suburbs, a riding lawn mower, a big screen tv, a fast growing Stock Portfolio, and not have to live near too-many-black-people or the workers who make most of the merchandise we consume. I realise Christianity means we don't have to be Jewish anymore, but does anyone remember the story about the Golden Calf?
There are some churches that teach their congregations that God wants them to be wealthy, to have the best of everything, in essence, to have a piece of heaven on earth. I read a recent article in Time magazine about this issue; the article presented the viewpoint of the churches that ascribe to God wanting people to have material wealth and also the opposing viewpoint of the more traditional churches. Both sides, of course, presented scripture to support their teachings.
Bulldozer, I find it very interesting that you would take one special interest group's take on God and energy politics, and take it for granted that other Christian groups in the USA hold similar views. What is your agenda then? _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 2019 Location: Australia
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Efficient Market
Jesus wasn't very judgemental.
i.e. he mingled a mit with soldiers and didn't condemed them for killing people.
He did however say; it is easier for a camel to get through a needles eye than for a rich man to go to heaven.
My take on this is that it is not so much the wealth that is the problem but what it tends to do to people.
He also enjoyed some of the finer things in life like having his hair and feet massaged with expensive oil.
This despite some disciples complaining that the oil could have been sold to raise funds for the poor.
My take on all this is, don't get too hooked up on the details.
Make your money in a ethical honest way and share plenty with others but don't go broke doing it.
I am sure noone is going to burn for eternity because they had some large figures left in the account. _________________ It's not a bailout, it's a buy-in" - Nancy Pelosi
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Efficient Market
MrBill wrote:
Bulldozer, I find it very interesting that you would take one special interest group's take on God and energy politics, and take it for granted that other Christian groups in the USA hold similar views. What is your agenda then?
I apologize if you feel lumped in with the trend described above. The group I described is the one most strongly associated with blocks of voters who support the present regime under George W. Bush. I certainly don't use them as a definition of Christianity.
I'm sure most of the people in the group and general trend of groups I described are at least average decent people, however misguided they are in trying to stand up for themselves in this scary changing world.
Nor do I begrudge or envy people having more wealth than me. It is when they do so through policies which I see leading us to disaster and large segments of the population becoming worse off that I take a stance which may be wrongly construed as anti-money.
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Efficient Market
bulldozer wrote:
MrBill wrote:
Bulldozer, I find it very interesting that you would take one special interest group's take on God and energy politics, and take it for granted that other Christian groups in the USA hold similar views. What is your agenda then?
I apologize if you feel lumped in with the trend described above. The group I described is the one most strongly associated with blocks of voters who support the present regime under George W. Bush. I certainly don't use them as a definition of Christianity.
I'm sure most of the people in the group and general trend of groups I described are at least average decent people, however misguided they are in trying to stand up for themselves in this scary changing world.
Nor do I begrudge or envy people having more wealth than me. It is when they do so through policies which I see leading us to disaster and large segments of the population becoming worse off that I take a stance which may be wrongly construed as anti-money.
No, not me, I believe in a strongly democratic, secular society. Religion has no place in politics in my opinion. Not if political institutions are to function to serve all persons regardless of race or religion for example. It is fine if like minded people want to vote as a block, but I get nervous when the moral majority or even a vocal minority start to push their own views and opinions on others. _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 1658 Location: Springsteen Country (NJ)
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Efficient Market
Ludi wrote:
What is the Biblical support for free markets, specifically, what did Jesus teach about free markets?
As I recall, Jesus is recorded as saying "If you wish to be perfect, sell all you have and give to the poor, and follow me." Not much there about free markets....
Not only that, the only time he exhibited any violence was when throwing the money changers out of the temple.* Money changers (i.e. bankers) are the driving force behind our debt-based, fractional-reserve, constant-growth banking system.
*I'm talking about "Jesus" the same way I talk about Frodo or Gandalf, strictly as fictional characters in fictional stories. _________________ Joe P. United Political Debate
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13181 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Efficient Market
joewp wrote:
*I'm talking about "Jesus" the same way I talk about Frodo or Gandalf, strictly as fictional characters in fictional stories.
Yeah, I understand that, but we can still look at what these characters are depicted as saying and make some guesses about their values, etc. Jesus may have enjoyed having his feet rubbed with oil, but he didn't say to the rich young man, "Don't worry, keep your riches and you'll be just fine, you're doin' good kid." As you recall, the rich young man went away disappointed, because he didn't want to take that extra step and sell his belongings and follow Jesus. Jesus didn't indicate in that conversation that the rich young man would be able to keep his riches and still follow Jesus, in fact, it seems clear that he could not do so, as he went away disappointed. He did not follow Jesus. He chose his riches over being "perfect."
"Be perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect" said Jesus to his followers. He didn't say "Be like everyone else, gather your riches and enjoy them." _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: Re: Efficient Market
Assuming any of us know exactly what Jesus actually said considering nothing was written down until after 30-years after his death. Do you remember exact conversations and events as they happened over 30-years ago?
Plus they were written in old Assyrian language and then translated numerous times over the centuries often by a corrupt Church that had its own political agenda. And we know that they altered passages to show that Jesus was not just a Prophet, but the Son of God, and born without sin for example.
So that is fine if that is what you believe, but I have a hard time believing that good people that do no harm are going to rot in Hell whether or not they choose to follow Jesus or not? My belief in God certainly allow for alternative faiths to co-exist in a peaceful way with no one religion being better than the next, which by the way in the Bible is known as the sin of pride and the sin of religion.
In God's plan He obviously put natural resources on this planet to be used. He never guaranteed us that they would be infinite in supply however. Get used to it.
If banks did not exist, we would soon invent them. What nonsense you people speak sometimes. We (collectively) gave some guy a Nobel type prize for giving micro-credit to the poor and everyone (collectively again) thought that was the greatest thing whereas I see it as an admission of our (collective) inability to tackle the real underlying problems of corruption that do not allow real banks to cater to the needs of people in developing countries.
But I will probably rot in Hell for my points of view, so this life and this earth is all I have in the meantime. You might remember that Jesus also said, love thy God and love thy neighbor. There is no vow of poverty in that simple, but eloquent statement. _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 1658 Location: Springsteen Country (NJ)
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: Efficient Market
MrBill wrote:
If banks did not exist, we would soon invent them.
Maybe, but they certainly wouldn't be institutions that loan out ten times more then they have in assets!
Quote:
But I will probably rot in Hell for my points of view, so this life and this earth is all I have in the meantime. You might remember that Jesus also said, love thy God and love thy neighbor. There is no vow of poverty in that simple, but eloquent statement.
I'll look for you in hell.
However, I believe their is a vow of non-greediness in love thy neighbor. Being a finite planet, if you gather as much to yourself as you can, you're not loving your neighbor, you're leaving less for him, maybe even less than necessary for survival. _________________ Joe P. United Political Debate
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
