Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
Tyler_JC wrote:
I believe that all thread under 1 page that have been in the data base for longer than X months (6, 12, 18, 24, whatever) should be automatically deleted. Or at least moved to a seperate data base. Then we could combine small threads with simillar topics together. Or, we could limit this automatic thread elimination to only the open forum. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud here.
I agree small threads of little interest should be deleted by progran or moved into 'generic' or 'group' threads. I strenuously support keeping these giant group threads and I have no problem with moderators choosing which to combine. I think this may have worked fairly well with 'Mother of All Biofuels.' _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah shit
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
So typical organizational behavior; just like government; an incident followed by proposals for some fix, which fix amounts to restriction.
Why not just let inappropriate post fall of their own weight? Are you experiencing server limitations?
Hell, if you expect people to come to your party, you should let it be fun. You know that workplaces that are loosy/goosy fun are way more productive than traditional proper stogy. Same for schools, and I would presume same for discussion forums.
Way back when I took a Criminology course as an elective. The only thing I remember from it was that if you could force conforming behavior in a society you would be eliminating deviation, both positive and negative, so bye, bye innovation.
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3275 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
I voted for no changes because I tend to ramble on philisophical from time to time and some of those posts tend to drift off topic (like this one). People come here for two main reasons, to be educated and to debate. Change/restrict the set up and you stifle the debate. Take away the debate and I won't have much reason to visit, my educational reading ranges far and wide and PO tends to be repeatiing data I see in other locations as well.
PO is the scariest thing other than a nuclear exchange that I think is going to happen in my lifetime, if I can't come here and debate the pro's and con's of different survival options technological and/or otherwise without worrying about offending people then again, why be here instead of somewhere else?
People need to toughen up, if someone offends you either ignore it like a mature adult or if it is beyond that level report it privately to a mod/admin.
The only other option is we all become mealy mouthed whiners with no toughness who will die out like a flash bulb when the real rigors of PO hit us in the face.
I know I have probably offended others on here with my steadfast opinions about Fission, but I have not been suppressed or abused because of my opinions and that is my highest recomendation for PO.com. This place has been good to me, it has reawakened my college debating skills and given me some firery rhetoric to feast on and respond too. I can also honestly say that I have been offended by others on here, but I learned a long time ago to ignore such annoyances except when they cross the line into racism/classism which rather pushes my buttons. Even then I manage to respond with what I think of as polite restraint and I haven't been getting warning from the mods so I must have my temper fairly well under controll.
The only possible improvement I can see would be for only the last 24 hours be the default on a thread instead of the current default of oldest post first and start at the beginning. _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4015 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
Actually, my psychology teacher (and my therapist for that matter) wouldn't be pleased with my suggestion.
We should use negative reinforcement to encourage people to write intelligent threads.
If we ignore the bad threads, people will try to make better threads.
If we delete the bad threads, the bad posters will feel personally hurt and be more inclined to complain/whine about their plight.
But since we don't care about the feelings of fools (or at least I don't think Aaron or I care), we should just delete small, low quality threads that haven't attracted any interest in a year. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: Apr 13, 2005 Posts: 2561 Location: St.Louis, Mo
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
alpha480v wrote:
Don't eliminate the Open Discussion forum. It is a necessary place to talk about topics besides peak oil. Granted, there are many topics in open discussion that are garbage. Just don't respond to the posts. Don't feed the trolls. It's that simple. Eventually the garbage posts die, and the trolls move on.
The hall of flames I could care less about. Maybe getting rid of this would help with peak oils credibility. I would think that someone new to peakoil.com for the first time would be turned off by what he or she reads in the hall of flames. Some of the posts in this section make us look like a fringe group that can't be taken seriously.
Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 1389 Location: Portland, Oregon
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
Again- why would I ever read a 47 page thread? Pouring through posts that are boring or uninteresting. If we really wanted to consolidate we would just have one thread entitled "Peak Oil" and it would be 84,000 pages long. Allow for continual reinvention, newbies, recycling of old thinking to happen via new threads. Allow for idiocy and wrong thinking. Other posters quickly set people straight or these folks are ignored and these select threads get tired fast and die.
Sometimes complete idiots spur smarter posters to post very intelligent and interesting replies that allow a thread to gain a life of its own. So, again, unless it is needlessly inflammatory or completely off-topic, do not delete. Instead of centralizing threads into "Mother of all...", allow for decentralization. Threads on the same subject take different tacks. By centralizing, you don't allow for bifurcations or trifurcations of the discussion.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 5249 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
In general, I would rather be the one making the decisions about what to choose to read and say, rather than having moderators making more of those decisions for me. This includes preserving as discrete forums those that some may perceive as repetitious but which to newbies and even some older hands may be anything but. Gigantic threads into which everything on a subject is dumped have a tendency to become ossified and dull, not to mention unreadable.
At times, the involvement of moderators on PO.com can be a bit heavy-handed, and I have come to "fear" them a bit. I dare not mention names. Many---probably most---of the moderators do a fine job, though. I have few complaints as things are currently set up.
I don't see how one can ban stupidity, ignorance, redundancy, viciousness, silliness, and irrelevancy. Policing these behaviors even more than they already are is IMO more trouble than it's worth and could have unintended consequences.
I'd rather be the victim of the occasional ad hominem attack than see them policed into oblivion, if that is even practical or possible.
I vote no or minimal change to what in my eyes is a winning formula. Maintain as much flexibility as possible, including letting people be themselves (within obvious limits, of course). _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:32 am Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
I think that the suggestion to weed out some of the old and not frequented posts is a good one. However, different threads might have different time limits, with forums like Current Events and Geopolitics having shorter spans. Planning for the future, might require longer retention (at least those posts that give ideas of how we might plan).
for example: Current events has 112 pages of thread titles...far too many for me to bother with; near the end was one from 2004 that notified of a new ASPO news letter --- that sort of post should only be around for one month (as that is the frequency of news letters). Could the thread intitiators be given an option to 'self-destruct' the thread after a certain time? (Or would every one want to keep their thing for 'ever'?) _________________ We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1153 Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:56 am Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
I vote for free speach. A laissez-faire market of ideas.
"Let a hundred flowers bloom; let a hundred schools of thought contend." Mao Zedong (but without the execution of those who don't agree with the boss)
But if you must make changes I would suggest: careful pruning of older, unproductive and out of date threads; even more careful merging of useful threads of the same topic; and, maybe even a soupcon of delicate editing of totally unproductive posts within a thread (eg. totally offtopic) after a set period of time (eg. 1-2 months after the last post). Keep both the Open forum and Hall of Flames with maybe a shorter topic lifespan (especially for the HOF) unless a topic is especially good or an argument especially funny. _________________ Kind regards, Katkinkate
"The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops,
but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
Masanobu Fukuoka
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 2657 Location: looking for space
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:40 am Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
My final opinion:
If I am looking for simple energy news, nothing more, my first choice is Energy Bulletin. The front page of this site is similarly valuable.
I come here because:
-I like to share my ideas with a critical group
-it's entertaining
-the posters bring a very broad perspective on energy issues, along with many related tidbits and details from their browsing efforts.
In the simple analysis, if you narrow the boundaries, the site will lose value to me.
The only controls I would employ would be a rigorous definition of "hate speech", and censorship of the same. The only question then is defining terms.
Adults are capable of weeding through the rest of the BS on their own _________________ Fuel, Fertilizer, and Food.
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
Excellent points & observations all.
I tend to fall into the "lest restrictive" category of thought myself. It's a tough call... They say hope floats... but then again... so does crap. We get complaints from both sides:
1) Too much crap posting.
2) Don't Tread on Me!
But I have heard the lamentations about post quality loud enough recently to pay attention. And in substance I agree with this observation. I too feel personally embarrassed by some of the stuff posted here.
My natural inclination is to view this drivel as protected speech though... up to a point. Question is... what is that point?
It is worth noting that our traffic follows gas prices very closely, as mentioned by another member earlier this thread. So the level of discourse varies accordingly.
How many other boards publicly invite critique of their own policies?
At the very least there is value in the discussion I think.
Keep posting.. we are listening. _________________ "We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time." - TS Eliot*
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:57 am Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
Aaron wrote:
My natural inclination is to view this drivel as protected speech though... up to a point. Question is... what is that point?
I think ad-homs should definitely be out, as they can't contribute to any useful discussion. And the fact that people who post rubbish often post ad-homs as well should naturally eliminate the most crappy posts.
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
whoever suggested not including open discussion in the view posts since last visit option. That was a good idea. I imagine it would avoid so much embarrassment and it isn't really censorship in my view.
Sometimes, like the peak toilet paper thread, one of those silly threads can really snap you out of a gloomy mood.
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 2657 Location: looking for space
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
my final pragmatic point:
90% of the new traffic to this site never looks past the front page(stats check please?)
leaving Open and HOF off the 24 hr and view since last refresh list means 90% of the rest will never see those two forums.
That means only the forum junkies will bother to dig. Let 'em at it. It's all occuring in the margins anyway. _________________ Fuel, Fertilizer, and Food.
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 4146 Location: THE MATRIX
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:17 am Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
IMHO - PO got me here and the "other" discussions keep me here.
That and the excellent moderation of this forum.
Yes I have whined and complained and I will still probably whine and complain but thats simply because I cannot tolerate intolerant racist pro nazi neoconic satan worshipping war mongering fools!!
It seems all will eventually reach a point of saturation or at least the point where they feel that they "know enough" about PO.
I find myself lurking the energy threads now more then anything so take away the open forum and I would be here alot less and probably only click on PO.COM for news.
Clean the place up if you wish but let us discuss carefully the definition of "trash" or "garbage" threads first please.
For instance:
911 truth - puhhh!!
Alot of people want to "trash" those threads yet IMHO 911 MIHOP/LIHOP makes so much sense and "belongs" somewhere alongside Peak Oil.
The same applies to climate change, geopolitics and the economy.
I would personally feel offended and that the site was being heavily censored if those threads were not allowed.
Everything is interrelated wether you believe in Peak oil/die off/aliens/illuminati/satanic cults or not!!
One mans trash..... _________________ It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah shit 
