Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 3542 Location: On the ball
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: Building Down a New Life
Everyone should take a couple hours to inventory their material lives and contemplate each item with regard to:
-how it is made
-what it is made from
-where it is made
-the impact of its loss
The easiest method is to wander your home opening drawers, closets, cabinets, sheds, garages, and living areas making a list as you go.
Set your category levels however you like. For example you can look at "spoon", "fork", and "spatula" as separate or categorized as "kitchen utensil".
Sort your list first according to "what it is made from" first. (you did use a spreadsheet, right?) Highlight all items made from materials in depletion, again setting category levels as you like.
Now sort by "where is it made". Again set category as you like, for example: "mostly far away", "all in china". "under 200 miles", etc.
Sorting by "how it is made" is a little more difficult. Focus on the question "Can we figure out how to make this locally again?", then sort by a simple"yes"-"no" field.
When done, scan your list. Can you live without the item? If not, is your source at risk through depletion, distance, or technological barrier?
The final result for Americans is sobering. Many of the necessities of life just aren't made here anymore. Many of the rest are only available in very limited quantity. (boots, for example)
We still have the largest manufacturing capacity on the planet, by a wide margin. Unfortunately that capacity is increasingly focused on military, medicine, and agriculture with the petroleum input engine supporting the whole complex.
You will note those attributes all support a well fed and healthy military complex, and not much else. Since I have four male offspring between 16 and 25, this fact I find beyond sobering.
A very grim future awaits America. Start building down your new life right now. Weed out your list.
Please post links to your spreadsheets here, if you are willing. I will post mine when it's done.
(mine will be brief, I am hoping someone with a lot of time on their hands will do the exhaustive study and be willing to share.) _________________ "It's still all about energy!"
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 3542 Location: On the ball
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
Heineken wrote:
If you had known then what you know now, would you still have had four children?
One or none.
Back then I was a young, horny technologist that fully believed my efforts at automation design were contributing to a bright, happy, elevated lifestyle for all mankind that ultimately would lead to a Star Trek future.
Like so many others, I went about the business of raising children and building a career, with little time or interest in looking outside that context. I look back now with some regret, as prior to that time I was very interested in energy issues, including resource depletion and the limits of growth. It was far enough in the future then, at least to my young mind, that other interests pushed the topic aside.
Like I said above, I blame my testicles. Might as well, I am a man, and for me they are a convenient excuse for irrational decisions. _________________ "It's still all about energy!"
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 2123 Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
MD wrote:
MD wrote:
Is anyone working on this?
Or will I have to do it myself?
I did it years ago and I've been trying to pare down my "stuff" ever since. I think it's good that people do what you suggest, just to get a feel for how much of what we have comes from elsewhere. _________________ “Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1264 Location: Off with the Fey Folk
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
MD wrote:
MD wrote:
MD wrote:
Everyone should take a couple hours to inventory their material lives and contemplate each item with regard to:
-how it is made
-what it is made from
-where it is made
-the impact of its loss
The easiest method is to wander your home opening drawers, closets, cabinets, sheds, garages, and living areas making a list as you go.
Set your category levels however you like. For example you can look at "spoon", "fork", and "spatula" as separate or categorized as "kitchen utensil".
Sort your list first according to "what it is made from" first. (you did use a spreadsheet, right?) Highlight all items made from materials in depletion, again setting category levels as you like.
Now sort by "where is it made". Again set category as you like, for example: "mostly far away", "all in china". "under 200 miles", etc.
Sorting by "how it is made" is a little more difficult. Focus on the question "Can we figure out how to make this locally again?", then sort by a simple"yes"-"no" field.
When done, scan your list. Can you live without the item? If not, is your source at risk through depletion, distance, or technological barrier?
The final result for Americans is sobering. Many of the necessities of life just aren't made here anymore. Many of the rest are only available in very limited quantity. (boots, for example)
We still have the largest manufacturing capacity on the planet, by a wide margin. Unfortunately that capacity is increasingly focused on military, medicine, and agriculture with the petroleum input engine supporting the whole complex.
You will note those attributes all support a well fed and healthy military complex, and not much else. Since I have four male offspring between 16 and 25, this fact I find beyond sobering.
A very grim future awaits America. Start building down your new life right now. Weed out your list.
Please post links to your spreadsheets here, if you are willing. I will post mine when it's done.
(mine will be brief, I am hoping someone with a lot of time on their hands will do the exhaustive study and be willing to share.)
Is anyone working on this?
Or will I have to do it myself?
Yes, yes, OK MD, point taken...
I gave up on spreadsheets when I quit my IT job so I ain't gonna be posting one - we'll have to do this the old fashioned way ;o)
-how it is made
-what it is made from
-where it is made
-the impact of its loss
First, let's define the points.
- how it is made - what its made from - interesting starting points, but propably inseperable. Take something as essential as grain/flour/bread, for example. How it is made, is from oil products , labour, tractors, transportation & energy. What it is made from is the above list, also plus soil.
You see my point? Where it is made is the above list, plus bakeries, distribution warehouses & supermarkets.
The impact of it's loss affects everything in the above group plus also (in a severe case) every other activity on the planet to a lesser or greater degree depending on the amount of the loss & it's duration. (This may also extend into extra-planetary space i.e. the space exploration program may be affected (again in un-known ways).)
OK, so I'm being farcical (sorry). On an individual level the spreadsheet is easy. For example, back to food:
-how it is made
-what it is made from
-where it is made
Don't care, providing I can grow my own.
-the impact of its loss
Catastrophic, unless I can grow my own.
Sorry to be so negative but I don't see this spread-sheet as being useful for anything other than working out the relative values of plastic children's toys and parts for fighter aircraft (both of which, I hope, the next generation will hold in equal contempt).
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 3542 Location: On the ball
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
JPL wrote:
Sorry to be so negative but I don't see this spread-sheet as being useful for anything other than working out the relative values of plastic children's toys and parts for fighter aircraft (both of which, I hope, the next generation will hold in equal contempt).
JPL
Instead of trying to explain, I guess I will eventually post a spreadsheet, then you can examine it and respond.
I can't relate anything in your post back to my original intent, sorry.
By the way, "how something is made" defines the process, not the content. Your example "grain" is made from seed, fertilizer, water, and soil. How it is made is you plant the seed, water and fertilize as needed, and harvest.
Bread is baked, and made from flour, etc. Flour is made from grain, and how you make it is your grind it in a mill.
Where it is made is the prmary geographic location of manufacture. Some things are made everywhere, others are mostly made in certain regions, others are exclusively made in one place.
Impact of loss means just that. Without water, you die. Without a sony playstation, you may have to kill your teenager. No DVD player? You will adjust. No where to buy boots? You might have to improvise.
The whole point of the exercise is to demonstrate, on a personal level, just how at risk the US population is to the current and developing global supply chains.
In your final point you compare childrens toys to airplane parts? This is all you have in your house?
Joined: Oct 06, 2006 Posts: 1371 Location: East Texas
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
Maybe its just me, but I don't have to much difficulty seperating the stuff that I like and enjoy; from that which I must have to survive.
Will I be annoyed that coated, non-stick frying pans are no longer availble. Sure. Will having to fry an egg in a cast iron skillet threaten my survival? No, not really.
Is it even necessary to convince those around you of the problem? I don't think so. If things go badly, eventually the question will devolve to food here, no food there, now what were you saying about life on a farm? _________________ Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 3542 Location: On the ball
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
AgentR wrote:
Maybe its just me, but I don't have to much difficulty seperating the stuff that I like and enjoy; from that which I must have to survive.
Will I be annoyed that coated, non-stick frying pans are no longer availble. Sure. Will having to fry an egg in a cast iron skillet threaten my survival? No, not really.
Is it even necessary to convince those around you of the problem? I don't think so. If things go badly, eventually the question will devolve to food here, no food there, now what were you saying about life on a farm?
Feel like nailing two boards together on your farm?
Got any nails?
Sure you do, a whole shitload in fact, if your shop is worth a damn.
Enough to last a lifetime? Because they may have to..... _________________ "It's still all about energy!"
Joined: Oct 06, 2006 Posts: 1371 Location: East Texas
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
MD wrote:
Feel like nailing two boards together on your farm?
Got any nails?
Sure you do, a whole shitload in fact, if your shop is worth a damn.
Enough to last a lifetime? Because they may have to.....
Nails don't concern me as much as screws. Fortunately, I think those coated screws, kept dry in the box, should be very nearly eternal; so I do the, use 10, buy a pound method.
On the other hand, have you ever considered how you'll MAKE boards? I've made 4x4's before, but never anything thin. _________________ Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 3542 Location: On the ball
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
AgentR wrote:
MD wrote:
Feel like nailing two boards together on your farm?
Got any nails?
Sure you do, a whole shitload in fact, if your shop is worth a damn.
Enough to last a lifetime? Because they may have to.....
Nails don't concern me as much as screws. Fortunately, I think those coated screws, kept dry in the box, should be very nearly eternal; so I do the, use 10, buy a pound method.
On the other hand, have you ever considered how you'll MAKE boards? I've made 4x4's before, but never anything thin.
My first place was across the street from a saw mill. It had about a 30 inch blade and ran off a diesel engine. I used it to cut an oak beam, which I am sure is still under the middle of the house, right where I put it.
There are still plenty of lumber mills in North America, I think.
You are right about the coated screws. I will have to do a little research to be sure, but I think most of that production is gone.
I am told 90%+ spring production is gone. Stop and think about that one for a minute. Springs are everywhere, and we don't make many any more. _________________ "It's still all about energy!"
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
I haven't categorized everything I own, but I have made big changes in how I buy. I've always liked to get the best quality for my dollar. Now I find myself looking at every purchase in great detail.
First, do I really need this? Is it a purchase or an investment?
Can I afford one that will last me a lifetime?
Is it repairable and should I get the parts to do that?
If it runs on electricity, will it be compatible with small-scale power?
Does it support local manufacturers?
Etc, etc, etc.
It takes longer to make a decision but I buy a lot less stuff and no useless crap anymore. _________________ Civilization is a personal choice.
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: Dead civilization walking
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
Gotta second y'all on the screws. I've used galvanized "deck" screws for years and have been known to reuse screws salvaged from old fencing or outbuildings. I tore down an old aviary that I build in highschool and saved the screws, brackets (Simpson strong tie hdwr) and sawed off the ends of the 2x4s that were rotted so that I at least had some good short lengths of lumber. Did all that because I just couldn't stand the waste.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6625 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
AgentR wrote:
Will I be annoyed that coated, non-stick frying pans are no longer availble. Sure. Will having to fry an egg in a cast iron skillet threaten my survival? No, not really.
I didn't wait for collapse to get rid of my nonstick frying pans and pots. They release toxins into your food, for one thing. Most models are outrageously expensive, for another. And you can't heat them over an outdoors cooking fire---they'll be destroyed.
So I trashed all of them and got a set of cast-iron pots and skillets. They are inexpensive. They add traces of iron, a necessary nutrient, to your food. They heat up quickly and evenly. They are indestructable. And when properly seasoned they are just as easy to clean as the fancy nonstick pans.
Cast-iron skillets and large pots are fairly easy to buy, but the only source of the smaller pots I could identify is Cajun Classics out of Mamou, LA. Those pots are built like brick shithouses and I highly recommend them. You can order them online.
OK, I'm done selling cast-iron cookware.
This is just another example of how technology, as represented by frying pans built to resemble spaceships, often induces greater dependency while not really benefiting us at all. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Oct 06, 2006 Posts: 1371 Location: East Texas
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:20 am Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
Hey, I like my cast iron stuff too, and they are just as easy to clean as any of the other stuff. My gripe however is again about the dependence on luxury items. We are so very used to absolutely perfect looking fried eggs, and with a non stick, I can drop a perfect pair of fried eggs on a plate without ever touching them with a spatula. Neither cast iron, nor stainless will release a frying egg anywhere near as perfectly.
Now, being so conditioned, if I were to put a non perfect egg on a plate, it would get noticed; and prior to any real nationwide hardships caused by PO, that is a loss in quality that they would never willingly accept. Its the base reason why I think its unrealistic to let go of these luxurious practices before conditions require it.
And thus, the cast iron skillet becomes the standard bearer for powerdown. Its perfectly good for baking cornbread, frying sausage, pan grilling steak, and even frying eggs; but since its not perfectly perfect at frying those eggs... it ends up on the back burner waiting quietly for the day when teflon is once again a futuristic/archaic fantasy. _________________ Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 3542 Location: On the ball
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:49 am Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
AgentR wrote:
Hey, I like my cast iron stuff too, and they are just as easy to clean as any of the other stuff. My gripe however is again about the dependence on luxury items. We are so very used to absolutely perfect looking fried eggs, and with a non stick, I can drop a perfect pair of fried eggs on a plate without ever touching them with a spatula. Neither cast iron, nor stainless will release a frying egg anywhere near as perfectly.
Now, being so conditioned, if I were to put a non perfect egg on a plate, it would get noticed; and prior to any real nationwide hardships caused by PO, that is a loss in quality that they would never willingly accept. Its the base reason why I think its unrealistic to let go of these luxurious practices before conditions require it.
And thus, the cast iron skillet becomes the standard bearer for powerdown. Its perfectly good for baking cornbread, frying sausage, pan grilling steak, and even frying eggs; but since its not perfectly perfect at frying those eggs... it ends up on the back burner waiting quietly for the day when teflon is once again a futuristic/archaic fantasy.
I took my mother's good cast iron skillet on a camping trip once. It's a very old one, very dark and smooth all around.
I burned the hell out of it for a weekend, fortunately I remembered to rub liberal amounts of dish soap all over the outside before use.
Unfortunately I took the season off the inside when cleaning off some charred remains. The pan never did take a good season after that.
It's ok though, my teenagers now ruin my stuff all the time, it's all in balance. _________________ "It's still all about energy!"
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1264 Location: Off with the Fey Folk
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Building Down a New Life
MD wrote:
JPL wrote:
Sorry to be so negative but I don't see this spread-sheet as being useful for anything other than working out the relative values of plastic children's toys and parts for fighter aircraft (both of which, I hope, the next generation will hold in equal contempt).
JPL
Instead of trying to explain, I guess I will eventually post a spreadsheet, then you can examine it and respond.
I can't relate anything in your post back to my original intent, sorry.
Hi MD,
Yea sorry, I just re-read my own post and maybe I was up too late )
What I was meaning to say was simply that with modern globalisation, too many things are mixed around in terms of production. Like a hamburger that has meat from many different farms (different countries even).
Anyhow you have given me a good answer with your list of 'needle, thread, hammer etc'. I can understand what you're saying in terms of 'simple every-day stuff that no-body seems to make in the West any more'.
Hmmm... worrying. If I had a blacksmith's forge I could make my own nails but where do I get a forge these days???
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