I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Joined: Dec 03, 2004 Posts: 1173 Location: Seattle, Wa.
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: Re: "You won't."
The challenge for Zardoz is that the template has already been set with his relationship with his son. Trying to implement a more disciplined strategy with consequences will be a daunting task. It's similar to school teachers who lose control of their classrooms, once that credibility is lost it is very difficult to regain it.
Some kind of catalyst or shift in this boys life to throw him out of his current realitywill be necesarry for Zardoz to have a chance at turning his son around. I think initially this has to come from some shared external experience. I come back to the idea of a trip to a developing country. Or a wilderness backpacking trip. The value of travel to a poor country is that by and large teenagers in poorer countries are more respectful and more mature on average than the over indulged AMerican youth. I can remember when travelling with my daughters they were amazed about how the average teenagers in the countries we visited where so much more mature. For my older daughter it threw her off base and broke some of those threads where she was beginning to align herself with those sheeple conditioned teenagers (thanks Baldwin) back at home.
Since we returned from that year of travel my daughter expresses many of the same sentiments today that Baldwin is stating here. _________________ Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: Re: "You won't."
Torjus wrote:
There probably is a reason why the US has more psychopaths and serial killers (per let's say 1000 people) than almost every other country in the world. Vandalism and social problems is almost a trademark of the UK, which "strangely" coincides with a high support of physical punishment of kids.
There is. Research conducted in the 70s demonstrated a direct correlation between physical punishment, minimal physical affection and repression of normal child and adolescent sexual play and exploration, and the level of violence found in the adult society.
Cultures that lavish affection upon children during their early years and refrain from physical punishment, or failing that, at the very least do not condemn or discourage adolescent pre-marital sexual experience, develop adult societies that tend to be very intolerant of violence towards others.
See Body Pleasure and the Origins of Violence for a more detailed overview. _________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
Joined: Jul 29, 2005 Posts: 252 Location: Show-Me State
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: Re: "You won't."
Good day, From Pheba, from the farm:
Goodness, where is the love and tolerance!
I have a daughter, age 30. She is a nurse, works nights, and is raising 3 small boys. She also takes care of an ailing elderly relative. Her husband is a good enough guy, but he is spoiled.
She cleans, cooks, pays all bills, mows the lawn, etc.
I give her what advice I believe will help her concerning peak oil,
But, I don't overload her.
She is already under tremendous stress.
Love is a verb, and it consists of doing what is right for somebody else. Love is more concerned with doing right, than being right.
I hope we are all wrong. I hope the TSDNHTF, but I believe it will, and soon.
So, I have advised my daughter to do those things she can do without harping on the doomerosity of Peak Oil.
She is highly intelligent, but the last thing I want is for her to have a nervous breakdown.
She and son in law have already worked hard at reducing debt, and they will be completely debt free in a couple of years.
Not bad for two young kids with 3 babies (all boys, two twins), a new home, and two vehicles.
The advice I have given my daughter:
reduce your debt load, get out of debt. They are doing that.
Reduce your need on outside energy sources. They are following my advice on that also.
Other than that I tell my daughter not to worry about it.
She and son in law grew up in the country, and know how to do things to survive. She can kill and dress a chicken, and he kills and dresses deer all during deer season. They then live on deer hamburger year round. My daughter has completely losther taste for beef hamburger.
His dad raises and butchers his own cattle. they all pitch in and they all know how.
They have low utility bills. Son in law built house, kept the house small,and insulated it at an insane level.
What more can the kids do?
I don't want to make my daughter sick with worry.
Also, Hubby and I have completely cleared debts, and we are becoming as prepared as possible so when the SHTF we can help them. We are aging, (early 50's), but they will have to be dealing with this mess for decades.
How I look at it.
Have a great day.
Pheba, from the farm:
Neuropsychology is a branch of psychology and neurology that aims to understand how the structure and function of the brain relate to specific psychological processes and overt behaviors.
It is scientific in its approach and shares an information processing view of the mind with cognitive psychology and cognitive science.
In otherwords, neuropsychology studies physiological influences upon behavior, not sociological influences.
Lack of positive somatosensory stimulation ( hugging, cuddling, "indulgence"), particularly when coupled with negative stimulation (physical punishment), actually inhibits the physical development of the brain and nervous system and can lead to adults that are literally incapable of enjoying pleasant physical sensations while conversely showing a greater affinity for pain and acceptance of it's infliction upon others.
This is not "liberal, feel-good mumbo jumbo", this is biological fact. _________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
...Perhaps you have the central command "planned economy" type kids on their five year ten point plan...Not everyone can be a pussy and cling to the paradigm of average...
...Actually you sound quite communist. The five year plan approach. No deviation from the path of school, job, house, kids to eternal happiness. One size fits all formula. Anyone not in agreement with you needs to go for re-education or is a loser...
...Not unless I want to breed a zombie robot with zero passion in their life, going to their unsatisfying job paying for their overpriced home. Pretending to be happy and successful purchasing nik naks from China...Personally I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about "the long march to becoming average"...
...Your kids Gideon are average. That's all they will ever amount to. Good safe average kids in many ways life all pre planned. They are dead already.
...there are many other people who had their great life planned out and in some cases it turns out well. In others it ends in disaster...
All you know is that the central command is not working on the kid and that his freedom riles you.
_________________________________________
Thank you very much for that post, Concerned. I've been thinking about it ever since you put it up. You given me a perspective on my son's "condition" that I didn't have before. I've had what amounts to an epiphany of sorts because of it.
"Central Command" really is not having its way with my kid, is it? He's walking into its headquarters, turning around, dropping his pants, bending over, and mooning it, isn't he?
He's mooning Central Command. He may not be even be aware of it, but that's what he's doing.
He's telling The Great American Mass-Education Machine to take its "useless and pointless knowledge" (Bob Dylan's words), and shove it right back up its collective ass. He's doing something I could never have had the guts to do. I've spent my entire life in pursuit of averageness, and it's paid off for me, in many respects. I won't tell you what my wife and I made last year. I won't tell you what our net worth is. I'd be too embarrassed. Playing the game per CenCom's rules has paid off quite well for this aging white American male Baby Boomer.
And yet, I don't see how I will ever be able to "retire". I'm so locked into this life that I'll always be trudging off to some job somewhere, obediently putting in my hours, obediently performing all the tasks assigned to me with a cheerful attitude and a smile frozen on my obedient face, obediently conforming to all the rules. I'm thoroughly ensnared by the machine. It's got me. I'll never get free of it.
In fact, I'm so thoroughly brainwashed by CenCom's programming that I would never want to be free of the machine's hooks.
Oh, the irony: I'm exactly the sort of son Gideon wishes he had. I've played the game per Gideon's rules. I've toed the strict party line. I've kept my nose to the grindstone. I'm a law-abiding solid citizen. He would be so proud of me.
And yet, here I am, living in luxury, pretty much bored to death. Not that I'm complaining, of course. How could anyone complain as they lay there in their sumptuous living room, gazing at the remarkable cable-fed High Definition imagery on their new 40" Sony LCD flat-panel? Why would I complain about having the sum total of human knowledge available to me at a 3800 KBPS download rate (Thank you, Charter Cable!) on any of our four near-state-of-the-art computers? What's to not like as I cruise along in my wife's new Toyota Avalon company car? How could I not love my new Civic LX? How could anyone who lives in an $800,000 condo in an utterly secure neighborhood a mile from the ocean in a paradise-like climate harbor a trace of ungratefulness? You think you're going to hear a single little peep of complaint out of this grizzled old veteran wage slave? Guess again!
Nevertheless, I really am bored.
Maybe, just perhaps, my son senses my boredom, even though I think I'm very good at concealing it. He's a sullen, lazy, un-motivated, thoroughly typical 16-year-old boy at the moment, but he's not stupid. He observes. He can see things that are shoved in his face.
And he is very much aware of how little of what he's "learning" in school is going to be applicable to his later life. He's complained about that for years. We've never had a counter-argument for that because we completely agree with him. He's right. So much of that stuff is knowledge purely for knowledge's sake. Sure, it's great to know, but there'll be no practical application for it in his life, and he damned well knows it.
Ibon wrote:
Maybe Zardoz's son is depressed because he is smart. Perhaps he sees adult life and adult careers as a bunch of zombies that are chasing worthless pursuits. Maybe his rejection of school is his rejection of what he sees as a broken society. That would explain why he is depressed even though his family life and friendships are intact. I would not worry about him. I would even maybe guess that he has absorbed more of his father and mother's awareness of the dysfunctional society we live in than they may suspect even though he never talks about it. A video game and skate boarding is a way to escape from what he sees as an unbearable culture around him. Just a guess. No interest in school since the 2nd grade is perhaps because he has more hunter gatherer genes.
You're probably onto something there, Ibon. Maybe that's what he's thinking. Perhaps when (and if) he pulls out of this funk he's in I'll be able to talk to him about it. I can't talk to him about anything at all right now, of course.
(I'm not so sure about the "hunter-gatherer genes", though. He's such a softy about animals he'd probably starve to death before he'd kill something to eat it. He'd gnaw on tree bark first.)
Maybe you're right and I shouldn't worry about him so much. Maybe I should be grateful. After all, if he bought the Gideon "You-vill-do-it-und-you-vill-like-it" party line, and conformed to CenCom's strict old school directives, I'd have good reason to worry. That old paradigm worked, for some at least, quite well in the oil-soaked past, but that's not going to be the world he'll be living in, is it? Bakhtiari's new report details what's going to happen to global oil production, and he's predicting that we'll be down to 55 million barrels a day by 2020. We all know what that's going to mean. A 34 percent drop in the oil supply is going to precipitate what MonteQuest calls The Grand Depression. The economic system of every country in the world is going to be completely busted, ours worst of all, probably.
How do you educate yourself for that? What field should you prepare yourself for when you're not at all sure what fields of endeavor are even going to exist when you turn 30 years of age? A huge number of graduates have trouble getting work in their chosen fields right now. What will it be like in 2020? What good are degrees going to be, post-peak?
In a post-peak world, which will be more valuable? Choose one:
A. A strong, solid, traditional work ethic.
B. A Bachelor's Degree
C. Multiple practical skills
D. Good looks and charm
Might the answer be "D"? Hey, who knows? It works for people now, and maybe it'll still work post-peak. In any case, he'll have that going for him, at least.
More irony: Gideon, your girls would probably really like my worthless-but-charming son. All girls do. He has several really together young ladies whom he counts among his best friends. I'm glad he has his own cell phone, or he'd have our home land line tied up constantly talking to them. Some of their conversations go on for hours. What the hell can they be talking about at such great length?
Maybe I'm all wrong about the kid. Maybe I should admire him in some ways. Maybe he has all he'll need in the post-peak world. Maybe I could learn something from him. Maybe I should be grateful that he's like this...
...rather than something akin to this:
Or not. We'll see how this plays out. Ultimately, it'll be up to him.
Thanks again, Concerned. You've given me things to consider that I hadn't thought of before. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Atleast in a post-peak world, a boy scout mightknow how to light a fire or condense water.
While forcing him through the sheeple factory known as public (you really should consider home school or atleast private education) won't do him good, becoming a lvl 70 paladin in WoW will be as equally useless as Gay-Lussac's gas law.
Not all rebellion is good. Refusing to heed your parents is a big problem. As you are peak aware, I wager you've improved from the mass-consumer most of us were before peak awareness.
...Perhaps you have the central command "planned economy" type kids on their five year ten point plan...Not everyone can be a pussy and cling to the paradigm of average...
...Actually you sound quite communist. The five year plan approach. No deviation from the path of school, job, house, kids to eternal happiness. One size fits all formula. Anyone not in agreement with you needs to go for re-education or is a loser...
...Not unless I want to breed a zombie robot with zero passion in their life, going to their unsatisfying job paying for their overpriced home. Pretending to be happy and successful purchasing nik naks from China...Personally I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about "the long march to becoming average"...
...Your kids Gideon are average. That's all they will ever amount to. Good safe average kids in many ways life all pre planned. They are dead already.
...there are many other people who had their great life planned out and in some cases it turns out well. In others it ends in disaster...
All you know is that the central command is not working on the kid and that his freedom riles you.
_________________________________________
Thank you very much for that post, Concerned. I've been thinking about it ever since you put it up. You given me a perspective on my son's "condition" that I didn't have before. I've had what amounts to an epiphany of sorts because of it.
"Central Command" really is not having its way with my kid, is it? He's walking into its headquarters, turning around, dropping his pants, bending over, and mooning it, isn't he?
He's mooning Central Command. He may not be even be aware of it, but that's what he's doing.
He's telling The Great American Mass-Education Machine to take its "useless and pointless knowledge" (Bob Dylan's words), and shove it right back up its collective ass. He's doing something I could never have had the guts to do. I've spent my entire life in pursuit of averageness, and it's paid off for me, in many respects. I won't tell you what my wife and I made last year. I won't tell you what our net worth is. I'd be too embarrassed. Playing the game per CenCom's rules has paid off quite well for this aging white American male Baby Boomer.
And yet, I don't see how I will ever be able to "retire". I'm so locked into this life that I'll always be trudging off to some job somewhere, obediently putting in my hours, obediently performing all the tasks assigned to me with a cheerful attitude and a smile frozen on my obedient face, obediently conforming to all the rules. I'm thoroughly ensnared by the machine. It's got me. I'll never get free of it.
In fact, I'm so thoroughly brainwashed by CenCom's programming that I would never want to be free of the machine's hooks.
Oh, the irony: I'm exactly the sort of son Gideon wishes he had. I've played the game per Gideon's rules. I've toed the strict party line. I've kept my nose to the grindstone. I'm a law-abiding solid citizen. He would be so proud of me.
And yet, here I am, living in luxury, pretty much bored to death. Not that I'm complaining, of course. How could anyone complain as they lay there in their sumptuous living room, gazing at the remarkable cable-fed High Definition imagery on their new 40" Sony LCD flat-panel? Why would I complain about having the sum total of human knowledge available to me at a 3800 KBPS download rate (Thank you, Charter Cable!) on any of our four near-state-of-the-art computers? What's to not like as I cruise along in my wife's new Toyota Avalon company car? How could I not love my new Civic LX? How could anyone who lives in an $800,000 condo in an utterly secure neighborhood a mile from the ocean in a paradise-like climate harbor a trace of ungratefulness? You think you're going to hear a single little peep of complaint out of this grizzled old veteran wage slave? Guess again!
Nevertheless, I really am bored.
Maybe, just perhaps, my son senses my boredom, even though I think I'm very good at concealing it. He's a sullen, lazy, un-motivated, thoroughly typical 16-year-old boy at the moment, but he's not stupid. He observes. He can see things that are shoved in his face.
And he is very much aware of how little of what he's "learning" in school is going to be applicable to his later life. He's complained about that for years. We've never had a counter-argument for that because we completely agree with him. He's right. So much of that stuff is knowledge purely for knowledge's sake. Sure, it's great to know, but there'll be no practical application for it in his life, and he damned well knows it.
Ibon wrote:
Maybe Zardoz's son is depressed because he is smart. Perhaps he sees adult life and adult careers as a bunch of zombies that are chasing worthless pursuits. Maybe his rejection of school is his rejection of what he sees as a broken society. That would explain why he is depressed even though his family life and friendships are intact. I would not worry about him. I would even maybe guess that he has absorbed more of his father and mother's awareness of the dysfunctional society we live in than they may suspect even though he never talks about it. A video game and skate boarding is a way to escape from what he sees as an unbearable culture around him. Just a guess. No interest in school since the 2nd grade is perhaps because he has more hunter gatherer genes.
You're probably onto something there, Ibon. Maybe that's what he's thinking. Perhaps when (and if) he pulls out of this funk he's in I'll be able to talk to him about it. I can't talk to him about anything at all right now, of course.
(I'm not so sure about the "hunter-gatherer genes", though. He's such a softy about animals he'd probably starve to death before he'd kill something to eat it. He'd gnaw on tree bark first.)
Maybe you're right and I shouldn't worry about him so much. Maybe I should be grateful. After all, if he bought the Gideon "You-vill-do-it-und-you-vill-like-it" party line, and conformed to CenCom's strict old school directives, I'd have good reason to worry. That old paradigm worked, for some at least, quite well in the oil-soaked past, but that's not going to be the world he'll be living in, is it? Bakhtiari's new report details what's going to happen to global oil production, and he's predicting that we'll be down to 55 million barrels a day by 2020. We all know what that's going to mean. A 34 percent drop in the oil supply is going to precipitate what MonteQuest calls The Grand Depression. The economic system of every country in the world is going to be completely busted, ours worst of all, probably.
How do you educate yourself for that? What field should you prepare yourself for when you're not at all sure what fields of endeavor are even going to exist when you turn 30 years of age? A huge number of graduates have trouble getting work in their chosen fields right now. What will it be like in 2020? What good are degrees going to be, post-peak?
In a post-peak world, which will be more valuable? Choose one:
A. A strong, solid, traditional work ethic.
B. A Bachelor's Degree
C. Multiple practical skills
D. Good looks and charm
Might the answer be "D"? Hey, who knows? It works for people now, and maybe it'll still work post-peak. In any case, he'll have that going for him, at least.
More irony: Gideon, your girls would probably really like my worthless-but-charming son. All girls do. He has several really together young ladies whom he counts among his best friends. I'm glad he has his own cell phone, or he'd have our home land line tied up constantly talking to them. Some of their conversations go on for hours. What the hell can they be talking about at such great length?
Maybe I'm all wrong about the kid. Maybe I should admire him in some ways. Maybe he has all he'll need in the post-peak world. Maybe I could learn something from him. Maybe I should be grateful that he's like this...
...rather than something akin to this:
Or not. We'll see how this plays out. Ultimately, it'll be up to him.
Thanks again, Concerned. You've given me things to consider that I hadn't thought of before.
I nominate this for post of the year. Thankyou Concerned and Zardoz
We all realize that the society we live in is unsustainable, life threatening, spiritually vacuous. So why didn't it dawn on us all collectively before this? Your son may have emotionally integrated what all of us know, and is responding, as you say, by mooning the school system. How many times have we posted that what is going to be in demand, in the future, are people with physical strength and a few good skills, not necessarily computer jockeys?
Zardoz, It would be a wonderful thing if you could talk to your son and tell him what you just told us. Then do a google search for "indigo children" It's pretty esoteric, but also darned intriguing.
And Gideon, I have no doubt your kids are terrific, as most kids are, if they're pulled out of the school system, and have a strong caring parent, or reasonable facsimile, teaching them. You are to be applauded, on that score.
One of the biggest problems seems to be the school system. It has become a monster, a big untameable dumbing down machine, that has become toxic. Kids are rebelling at a soul level.
"Central Command" really is not having its way with my kid, is it? He's walking into its headquarters, turning around, dropping his pants, bending over, and mooning it, isn't he?
He's mooning Central Command. He may not be even be aware of it, but that's what he's doing.
I would guess thats one of the factors at play. And I would say he is definately aware of it trust me kids know.
Quote:
He's telling The Great American Mass-Education Machine to take its "useless and pointless knowledge" (Bob Dylan's words), and shove it right back up its collective ass. He's doing something I could never have had the guts to do. I've spent my entire life in pursuit of averageness, and it's paid off for me, in many respects. I won't tell you what my wife and I made last year. I won't tell you what our net worth is. I'd be too embarrassed. Playing the game per CenCom's rules has paid off quite well for this aging white American male Baby Boomer.
You want to know something Zardoz. Getting back on to the averageness train is easy I climbed back on board at age 26 and put myself through university. Now I too am pretty average. Home, job, car.
The fun years were when I was free from the daily grind pursuing whatever inspired me. Clearly I didn't make any significant money from these endeavours however I tried my hand at many activities and even attempted starting my own business.
I still haven't given up completely on a more unconventional approach to "greater" prosperity however as you know averageness and that average job requires significant portions of your time.
Quote:
Oh, the irony: I'm exactly the sort of son Gideon wishes he had. I've played the game per Gideon's rules. I've toed the strict party line. I've kept my nose to the grindstone. I'm a law-abiding solid citizen. He would be so proud of me.
Very true. Especially ironic how Gideon identifies that he himself was much like your son in his youth and Gideon turned out ok on the averageness treadmill.
See no one minds being unconventional so long as the ca$h is flowing. If your son were travelling the world earning six figures pro skateboarding i'm sure there would be no crisis.
Quote:
Thanks again, Concerned. You've given me things to consider that I hadn't thought of before.
I just wanted to throw up an alternate perspective rather than the "you must study hard and get a good job or else all is lost..." approach.
I don't want to sugar coat it because for every Ray Croc or Brad McQuaid how many fell by the wayside and ended up on the average treadmill but at a lower income scale. Which is essentially what the argument boils down to in my belief.
Here is one thought... (Talk it over with family friends or perhaps he already knows all this)
Tell your son you need to speak with him and it's really important, let him be aware that it's something really important a real Crisis.
Sit him down...
Tell him that you love him and support him and that you know he is a great kid and there will always be a place for him in your/our home, even if he stays there till he is sixty. Yeah thats right sixty or beyond he is welcome, he is not a burden and you love him to pieces.
Ask him if there is anything you can do to help him achieve what he wants? Ask him if he has any plans for the future when I was his age I wanted to be a pro bodybuilder (look at Arnold young punk from Austria now gov of California. anything is possible)
I would try and find out if regular schooling is not his future what sort of thing does he see himself doing and how can you help him become kick ass doing it!
You could source skateboards and start selling them online with your sons niche knowledge a new world of product information becomes available as well as contacts you can use that to advantage sourcing and marketing.
Look at aaron started this PO website and now he is advertising and building web sites for other people.
world of warcraft for example would have scripts that allow automatic play of characters, you could run these scripts to increase the power of characters and then on sell them. THERE ARE REALLY DIFFERENT WAYS TO MAKE MONEY. And they can be quite interesting.
Look in all honesty he may not end up as iconic as a Ray Croc or Colonel Saunders one thing the kid will be able to say is "I did it my way" and know that mum/dad gave him succor.
My father allowed me to make my own decisions and I respect him for that but he never came out and took an interest to the point of how he could help me. He never mentioned his approval just said I was old enough to do what I want. My mother was always nagging and blabbering about well becoming "average". Which I am now much to her relief but at least I had a few great years of pursuing a dream. Prosperity on your own terms. (Which I haven't given up on completelyl)
Anyhow I think genuine love, understanding and support will do more to inspire your son in any endeavour than a control from the top because this is my house and i'm paying the bills type approach.
There are so many ways you can see him really flourish, I wouldn't be too eager to kick him out at sixteen.
I would definately encourage him to work. Any work part time full time, change jobs see whats out there get an idea for what he might like.
How does he earn money at the moment? If he gets pocket money does he have to do chores, like cleaning dishes, mowing lawns, washing the car etc..
Anyhow don't take any of this or what anyone else says as gospel. Life is an odd journey at times. _________________ "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
Right on, Concerned. I didn't truly thrive at anything, until I just gave up on being anything other than my weird self, then the universe just kind of opened up in all ways. The eccentricity I was always kind of fighting, II let take over. I wish I had understood this in my teens and twenties. All that was wrong, was, in a sense, right.
Whatever you make think about World of Warcraft, I wouldn't be in too big of a hurry to dismiss online gaming as "nothing but a waste of time":
Quote:
One such entrepreneur is Julian Dibbell, a contributing editor for Wired magazine, who in 2003 challenged himself to spend a year making a living as a retailer in the massively multiplayer game Ultima Online. Dibbell sold in-game items, currency and real estate on eBay, eventually making almost $4,000 a month in profits, translating into roughly a $36,000-a-year salary. And Dibbell says that his income only qualifies as lower-middle class among virtual businessmen.
"There are people making six figures," Dibbell says. "One-man operations, basically, doing seven figures. It's not hard to make money doing this."
The upshot, Dibbell says, is that as more users find ways to wring dollars out of gold pieces, games like World of Warcraft develop sophisticated economies, with measurable GDPs and exchange rates.
Not too shabby for just "wasting time"... _________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
Get back to us when Zardoz's kid becomes a millionaire.
Also, selling characters and in-game currency is illegal. The character, items, and currency are considered Blizzard's property.
Last time I checked you can purchase a game play that game. And if you don't like it you can sell "the game" to someone else. The characters are still Blizzards
If someone wants to pay more for "the game" because there is a lvl 30 character on the account *shrug* whats a guy to do? _________________ "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
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