How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
One of its main principles is: 5) The flourishing of human life and cultures is compatible with a substantial decrease of the human population. The flourishing of nonhuman life requires such a decrease.
We all know, very well, that the rate of human population growth is not slowing. It is in fact increasing.
Is die-off not an appropriate 'use of words' for population depletion? _________________ lateralus
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Help me solve the one problem that is greater than PO.
Commanding_Heights, I can understand exactly what you are saying and the point you are trying to get across, however YOU do not have sufficient understanding of the problem I am talking about, or you won't have used that irrelevant 'hammer' analogy.
Maybe you should understand the context of what I am talking about before opening thy mouth.
RonMN, we choose this illusion and continue to choose it you say?
But since we do not grasp the totality of existence and the deepest reality, then are WE not part of the illusion that exists within the absolute reality? What you really mean is We ARE the illusion. Why would reality CHOOSE to fool itself?? To play hide and seek because it is bored of the infinite eternal nothingness??
Put it another way, can and/or do CONTRADICTIONS themselves inherently 'exists' even within the mathematical or outside of that domain? Or there an explaination space or 'existence' space for contradictions and negations that classically 'do not exists'?
albente, who is she the surrounding enviroment you are talking of? Mother nature, the physical, metaphysical , what??
Please be more specific, the riddle is confusing. Who is the Old man?
entropyfails, how do you know for sure there is an 'world out there' at all? If you assume there is a mental and physical 'worlds',
then by that assumption you concede that your own knowledge and contact with the physical world out there must come through the confines of the mental world. Then for you, for all intents and purposes, isn't there nothing but the mental world?? What if there was no such thing as a distinction between mental and physical and it was all 'one' holistic nondual entity? How would you know otherwise?
keehah, does anything exists at all? If so, what?
I am not trying to solve the meaning of life, I am pondering the contradiction of existential existence itself....
lateralus, you going into the realm of evolutionary darwinism, physical biology, etc. Nothing wrong with that, but its not the ultimate mystery. _________________ http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2874/pullupkv0.png
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6276 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Help me solve the one problem that is greater than PO.
Of all the countless forms of life that have arisen on this planet, only we are capable of contemplating the meaning of our existence.
What a curse. What a burden.
Eventually, that capability will lead to our undoing. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 4144 Location: THE MATRIX
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Help me solve the one problem that is greater than PO.
We all know the answer to the real problem yet most are in denial.
Like many who came before me I respect the "Veil" and do not desire to name it, label it, give it a sex, a place or otherwise attempt to define, limit or "lift it".
The words we use to describe "it" are just "tools" that can be and often times are misused.
The goal is balance, to find our way back to the fulcrum and now that we have gone so far out to one side of the limb reaching back to the goal is going to be quite a feat to say the least yet I have no doubt that regardless of what may come the journey will continue.
Ultimately I believe if you believe then it is so thus careful what you wish for
These thoughts "drive" some people crazy huh?
I dont think so, I think they were already insane to begin with _________________ It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: Help me solve the one problem that is greater than PO.
You need to do some soul searching. Find out who you really are. Then you can start to find the way out of this virtual reality that all of us are in. You are in the material world but belong in the spiritual world.
Joined: Nov 25, 2006 Posts: 1361 Location: New York area
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Help me solve the one problem that is greater than PO.
gpws wrote:
Guys and girls, there are not to many days and years left until the grid goes down and we in 90% pop dieoff and stone age forever.
That's the type of crap that makes everything think I'm an r-tard when I tell them I believe in peak oil.
As for life, the universe and the meaning of everything. I think life is what you make it. The more you stress over it the more annoying it becomes. Look at animals, contented 90% of the time. Only stressed when the situation calls for it. Resilient.
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Help me solve the one problem that is greater than PO.
gpws wrote:
Commanding_Heights, I can understand exactly what you are saying and the point you are trying to get across, however YOU do not have sufficient understanding of the problem I am talking about, or you won't have used that irrelevant 'hammer' analogy.
Actually I did manage to make it through your posts (yawn) which sounded just like the stupid diatribe I went into, on my first mushroom trip at the age of sixteen... Everything made sense... Nothing made sense... Everything matters... Nothing matters... Am I real or just an illusion? Am I a dream of something greater? Did that tree just speak to me???
The title of your post is "Help me solve the one problem that is greater than PO".
1. NO ONE here can answer your questions much less solve them. It's a philosophical question that 1,000,000 would give you 1,000,000 different answers to.
2. IT'S NOT A PROBLEM! Peak oil is a problem. Pollution is a problem. Global Warming is a problem. Extinction is a problem. Overshoot is a problem. Depleted soil is a problem. Crime is a problem. Get the picture?
Does anything matter? Am I real or is it just an illusion, is NOT A BIGGER PROBLEM THAN PO.
The so called "irrelevant 'hammer' analogy" was meant to mirror how irrelevant your post is to the reality of PO. It's not your psycho-babble that pisses me off it's the fact that you want to claim your nihilistic/zero ontology philosophical question is a bigger problem than PO. And BTW, while I was typing the hammer analogy what I was really wondering was, how come the people who subscribe to "everything is an illusion" don't stick a gun to their head, say F it and pull the trigger, since nothing is real. Obviously something is holding them back. Could it be reality? Or Profit? Or the reality of profit?
Speaking of reality, I'd love for you to come back and let me know how much these questions matter when PO hits and you have a "problem" putting food on the table. Let me know how "real" that feels when the physical overtakes the philosophical.
All anyone here can answer is, you live, and you die. As far as spirituality/philosophy goes, that's a personal belief system. Once again (...wait for it...) IT IS NOT A BIGGER PROBLEM THAN PO. Although it can be validly argued that it's a needed tool to help you get through PO. But that wasn't your point was it?
I was almost impressed when you mentioned Evolutionary Darwinism but after reading what you followed it up with it's obvious you don't understand it.
gpws wrote:
RonMN wrote:
I'm not trying to "dis" you...
But...did Pa Ingals worry about what the "core" reason of life was?
The core reason of "life" is quite simply. Evolutionary Darwinism most perfectly explains it already, its no big secret or mystery. The core essence of EXISTENCE however is something else altogether...
RonMN wrote:
I'm not trying to "dis" you...
No...He just struggled for him & his family to survive. That is all.
Also no 'dis' from me either... but that kind of thinking is exactly what got 'us' into this PO, POP overshoot mess in the first place...
If you understood Evolutionary Darwinism and Evolutionary Psychology then you'd know that it's not thinking, it's the selfish gene that got us into this mess. PO is absolute proof of that.
The following is taken from “The Moral Animal":
In the late 1950's an early sixties, the social scientist Erving Goffman made a stir with the book called "The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life", which stressed how much time we all spend on stage, playing to one audience or another, striving for effect. (i.e. your post) But there is a difference between us and many other performers in the animal kingdom. Whereas the female Photuris (Photuris = a female firefly that mimics the mating flash of females in the genus Photinus to attract a Photinus male and eat him) is, presumably, under no illusion as to it's true identity, human beings have a way of being taken in by their acts.
[/end quote from The Moral Animal]
Acts like:
gpws wrote:
PO is the big picture. But we still haven't found the biggest picture of all. Let define the ultimate question in order to solve the ultimate mystery!!
To start off,
maybe descartes was wrong and I think does not equal therefore I am. Maybe like the ZERO ONTOLOGY says, NOTHING EXISTS AT ALL!, Despite it all, simply said, NOTHING IS REAL. There is no problem or solution!
Only the human species would squander and destroy all the precious and wonderful things that have been given to us, then ponder stupid crap like:
gpws wrote:
NOTHING EXISTS AT ALL!, Despite it all, simply said, NOTHING IS REAL. There is no problem or solution!
As such, it is absolutely undefined and unlimited possibility -- boundless possibility. There is no compulsion and no law. It is boundless freedom.
no you PO people are seeing an illusion, its not OIL, its ZERO/+Imaginary/+One
For if the 'I' is a mere illusion and not real, then surely it wasn't 'I' that chose to be born, and it wasn't 'I' that chose to live this life and experience this 'illusion' and it wasn't 'I' that is thinking this thought! 'I' am not responsible for misidentifying with the illusion, it was forced upon me by a sadistic and cruel 'creator'/universe!
Pure crap!
gpws wrote:
If I was an animal I'd live and die free
You are and you can. Not suggesting you do so. I'm just proving once again that the people who espouse this crap don't fully buy into it.
gpws wrote:
No matter how bad I fail, perfection is still and always perfect. I am content in that fact.
Perfection doesn't exist. It's just a personal opinion.
gpws wrote:
Maybe you should understand the context of what I am talking about before opening thy mouth.
The problem is you don't understand what you're talking about. You babble on and on trying to deconstruct life and the universe not even stopping to realize that it's beyond you.
The difference between reality and illusion is as simple as true and false. Reality equals true and illusion equals something that is believed to be true when in fact it is false.
Gratitude, shame, remorse, pride, honor, retribution, empathy, love, spirituality etc aren't illusions. They're simply elements of life which is a reality.
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6276 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: Re: Help me solve the one problem that is greater than PO.
lateralus wrote:
Very interesting post Commanding_Heights. Well done.
As was his original hammer post. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Joined: Jun 02, 2006 Posts: 61 Location: ...over yonder..
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Help me solve the one problem that is greater than PO.
Nicely said commanding heights.
I would add, having mentally ventured into the absolute duality dilemma before, that the paradox of the paradox is that its not a paradox and also...life/existence is a mystery to be lived, not a problem to be solved. The only thing that is perfect is imperfection. The only thing one can "truly" know is change. good discussion overall. when it all boils down, at least for me, i find it comforting that there is something so grand and mysterious beyond my comprehension capable of infinite possibilities. this comfort helps me in the day to day affairs of overcoming "real" animal problems like food and shelter, etc, etc.
Joined: Mar 18, 2005 Posts: 2564 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Help me solve the one problem that is greater than PO.
GPWS Quoted...the asked...
RonMN, we choose this illusion and continue to choose it you say?
But since we do not grasp the totality of existence and the deepest reality, then are WE not part of the illusion that exists within the absolute reality?
Since we do not grasp the totality of existance...Hmmmmm...since you do not grasp the totality of the free market, are you not still a part of it? Since you do not grasp the totality of death...do we not die? _________________ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
Joined: Mar 18, 2005 Posts: 2564 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Help me solve the one problem that is greater than PO.
I went back to the beginning...and saw this...
GPWS Wrote:
The core reason of "life" is quite simply. Evolutionary Darwinism most perfectly explains it already, its no big secret or mystery. The core essence of EXISTENCE however is something else altogether...
Darwinism (in my opinion) explains nothing. It doesn't explain how the first life formed on an acid/volcanic planet. It doesn't explain how "we" formed an abilty to reason or imagine.
We're even left alone to ponder our "superior science" when "they" discover that 80% of all mass in the universe is MISSING...so they decide to call it "dark matter" (which "they" have yet to even come up with a plausable theory).
So you go ahead & tell me of your god darwin...he don't mean squat to me! _________________ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
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