Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
Shannymara wrote:
Update: Well, the stove wasn't in such great shape, and it wasn't as nice looking up close. The search continues.
I am not so sure the expense of a wood cook stove is necessary. First of all I am not aware of any that are EPA certified.
I cooked on them before on multiple past fishing/hunting trips in the bush in Canada but really don't have enough experience with one manufacturer vs another. You regulate the heat by how much air and fuel you put in the firebox.
A nice inexpensive cure all to that major expense are those cast iron dutch ovens (with the legs and that many people use when camping with charcoal briquettes) Surprisingly are extremely versatile as you can do just about anything with them in terms of cooking. They also work just as well if you have a source of wood embers from a regular wood heat stove.
Technology from the 1700s work as well as a gas oven as long as you know the proper coal ratios to use for a specific desired temperature.
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5395 Location: Oklahoma
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
Thanks for your input, JB. I do have a large cast iron Dutch oven, it was one of the first preps I bought. However, I will be using this stove for heat, hot water, and all my cooking in winter, for a family of 3 (and potentially more if some relatives move in with us as things fall apart, which possibility we are planning for). I am also wanting a stove/oven with a smaller learning curve since this is intimidating already for a city girl like me. I do a lot of cooking and baking (even though I don't eat most of the stuff I bake ) and my son and I both love hot baths, too. So while you're certainly correct that it's not necessary, I'm going to get one if I can. _________________ "Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12473 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
Mechler wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't ever burn softwood if I could help it. But we cut our own wood, so hardwood made more sense anyway (better heating value, cost not an issue, etc.)
We clear a lot of cedar and like the fact that we can get extra value from it as firewood. We clean our own chimney also, of course.
We used to not think we should burn the cedar, but, we have found no problem with it. _________________ No original ideas are contained in this post.
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1416 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
There are a number of wood cook stoves that are EPA certified;
Aspen 1920 - simple, 600 sf heating area
Resolute Acclaim - with warming shelves, 1600 sf heating area
Both are made by Vermont Castings, which is renowned for quality stoves. I have the Winter Warm Large Fireplace System (a zero-clearance insert) which I have nothing but raves about. Unfortunately, because it is an insert, there is not enough ledge to cook on. Any freestanding stove that can also be used for heat sounds like a great idea to me. We can use our solar cooker from spring, summer, and fall. _________________ http://www.carfree.com http://ecoplan.org/carshare/cs_index.htm http://www.velomobile.de/GB/Advantages/advantages.html
Chance favors the prepared mind. -- Louis Pasteur
He that lives upon hope will die fasting. --Benjamin Franklin
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5395 Location: Oklahoma
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
I decided to get the Flame View, and have placed the order. It won't be here until late January (optimistic) or early February (realistic), and meanwhile I have to install the protective brick or tile and chimney. I still have to pick out a hot water tank to go with it, too. _________________ "Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
Just a heads up if anyone is looking for a deal on a nice basic wood stove - Lowe's and Home Depot have both stocked Englands Stove Works products this season and they are now on clearance to make room for springtime merchandise. Your luck may very by region, and you need to hurry lest you find a floor full of riding mowers in their place!
Englanders are EPA approved (clean burning and efficient) and have usable stovetop cooking surfaces. They have the best support in the industry for DIY installations and really stand behind their product.
Happy hunting! _________________ Oil - it's what's for dinner.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6501 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
skyemoor wrote:
Both are made by Vermont Castings, which is renowned for quality stoves.
I have probably mentioned this but I really like our little VC stove too – can’t remember the model but it is a well built stove and pretty too.
With mild temps in the high teens it gets about 800sf of the old windy joint ok and 500 toasty if we work it – when it gets below 0* we huddle in about 250sf! _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
I was given some interesting news last night. The local (Pentecostal) church has just agreed to install wood burning stoves in two buildings that they own. One has a old stove that is too damaged by water to use.
I would not say that the people are Peak Oil aware, but they are very aware of the cost of energy, and are concerned enough to do something about it.
In a rural setting (where some have lived all their lives) they still have memories of when wood was the main source of energy and most seem to use wood heating as a significant part of their energy mix in winter (ie at least one fire a day even if they have oil or electricity based heating systems). _________________ We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
Hi, I have a question on the subject of outside air intakes please:
fireplaceguy wrote:
Thanks, everyone - I'm glad it was helpful.
Frank - I'm (at best) ambivalent about outside air intakes. While they solve some problems they can create others. I'm also aware that a house can be made so tight it turns unhealthy for the occupants, and I don't like it when people do every little thing they can to eliminate air infiltration/exchange...
The main problem an outside air intake solves is one of draft competition from (among other things) bathroom fans and range hoods in the home, which can create enough negative pressure to draw combustion gases out of the stove and into the living area.
However, I've also seen combustion gases drawn into an outside air duct (by wind) that almost burned down a house (the framing had charred but there was insufficient oxygen in the confined area to support flames). This particular hazard arose because the outside air intake was on the lee side of the house and there were frequent high winds - when they hit the house at a certain angle they caused substantial negative pressure on the lee side of the home and actually sucked flames out of the firebox through the air intake. Nobody except the homeowner ever saw it live - the retailer and the installer thought he was full of s---, but the video camera eventually captured the moment when the wind shifted perfectly. The video is chilling to watch, and suggested a very thorough inspection - when the drywall was cut away the charring was right there and the smoke smell was fresh!
Although everything was installed perfectly according to the instructions, real-world use uncovered this unanticipated problem. Lab testing doesn't reveal every potential issue with any product, and as they say, YMMV! The air intake was relocated, the damage was repaired and the homeowner eventually unpuckered enough to enjoy his fireplace!
I personally don't use outside air intakes unless mandated by the manufacturer - primarily mobile home installations and built in fireplaces. When one is called for, I'm very thoughtful about the placement of the intake relative to prevailing winds, and I'm quite possibly the only installer in the US who uses insulated pipe for air intakes and insists on chimney clearences for the pipe run!
The bottom line is that modern EPA certified wood stoves, inserts and fireplaces are very efficient - the air intake areas are just a few square inches. Combustion air is used sparingly and is very carefully metered. (This is the kind of stove everyone should be installing. The extra you spend up front will be paid back quickly through lower fuel usage, substantially safer operation and superb environmental friendliness.) Most homes have enough air infiltration to support a good draft - if they're too tight then having a fire is the perfect excuse to crack a window and let in some fresh air...
We recently had a Regency Hearth installed on the second floor of our home - and so far it has worked very nicely. But the installer put an outside air intake at the bottom of our chimney - at least I think that's what it is - which he said would be better than drilling a hole in the inside wall near the fireplace. Today it's been very windy and we can hear a howl from the hearth, apparently due to a draft leading from the outside intake up through the chimney. My question is is this normal and safe? (My wife is worried!) Thank you.
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
Koyaanisqatsi - I'll try to address this but need more info before proceeding. Is the air intake located on the side the wind hits? Did you have a fire burning at the time, and if so, how did the wind influence the fire? What model Regency is it? (They have a product called the hearth heater - is that what you're talking about or is it something else?)
It would be very helpful if you'd post some pics - inside and outside, close up and from a distance on the outside. With the pics give a description of the wind direction, too.
As I think about this, it could save considerable time to post your question, info and the pics over at my hearth forum (see my signature) where several real experts could be in on this from the beginning. (My founding moderator is a building official with a DEEP understanding of solid fuel appliances and venting, not to mention an old hand at fire investigations. Another mod is the national service manager for a stove manufacturer. Also, the Chairman of the Int'l. Assoc. of Fireplace & Chimney Inspectors is an active member. Me? - I'm both a certified installer and certified inspector.) I think we have the best little brain trust in the industry - between us, we should be able to give you & your wife some certainty!
I'll post a link here so everyone here can follow the thread as info develops. FYI, I used to sell Regency and I think they build a very good product line. In the interest of sales, they recommend installation configurations for some models that are questionable from the standpoint of safety, but so do other good manufacturers.
Installation safety is an issue our industry is wrestling with right now - we're in dire need of a best practices guide and at this juncture there is none. (Something I wrote about installation safety is in the Peak Wiki section here if you're interested.) Meanwhile, the folks I mentioned at my forum are at the core of a group trying to have some of these practices banned. Anyway, I have all the Regency tech info for every current model on my laptop, and a factory tech support contact if needed.
As you can see from what you first quoted there IS a potential hazard, and it's an obscure one that very few people in the industry are aware of. The process that produced the charred framing in the example you quoted is called pyrolysis, which is the thermal decomposition of wood. It's unlikely that process could have progressed very far in a new installation like yours, but all the same I recommend you not burn it again until we're sure things are ok. Better safe than sorry.
- FPG _________________ Oil - it's what's for dinner.
Joined: Dec 04, 2004 Posts: 2337 Location: perpetual state of exhaustion
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:41 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
I have a mobile home and a new acrylic shell on the roof. I want to do as much of the installation this year as I can, but think the whole stove pipe installation thing would be best left to a professional.
My issue: I would rather not have a hole punched in my new acrylic roof and would rather run the pipe outside and up the wall. I am having it installed right in my little livingroom not an addition. Can a wood stove person do the roof? or should I ahve someone else do it? and should I go straight up or can I go outside?
Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us!
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12473 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
Our installer went up through the second storey and on up through the roof. Eventually the hole leaked. We ended up patching it.
Going out through the wall will make cleaning the pipe more difficult because you won't be able to brush straight down, you'll have to dismantle the pipe inside the room, with the danger you will get soot all over the place.
Stovepipes must be cleaned at least once a year for safety. Flue fires are no fun. _________________ No original ideas are contained in this post.
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
uNkNowN ElEmEnt wrote:
I have a mobile home and a new acrylic shell on the roof. I want to do as much of the installation this year as I can, but think the whole stove pipe installation thing would be best left to a professional.
My issue: I would rather not have a hole punched in my new acrylic roof and would rather run the pipe outside and up the wall. I am having it installed right in my little livingroom not an addition. Can a wood stove person do the roof? or should I ahve someone else do it? and should I go straight up or can I go outside?
Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us!
Need input! What brand/model stove? What jurisdiction are you in? I need at least that much info before I can comment on the install. (PM it to me if you don't want to publicise your location.) _________________ Oil - it's what's for dinner.
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5395 Location: Oklahoma
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
FPG, sorry I've been out of touch. Our stove is being delivered tomorrow afternoon. I will post pix ASAP! _________________ "Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: [Shelter] Heat - Wood (was Wood Stoves)
Fireplaceguy - thank you so much for your quick and tremendously helpful response! I have just created an account with hearthtalk.com, will post all of the details there once the account is activated. Also will post a link to it from here. Thanks again!
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However, I will be using this stove for heat, hot water, and all my cooking in winter, for a family of 3 (and potentially more if some relatives move in with us as things fall apart, which possibility we are planning for). I am also wanting a stove/oven with a smaller learning curve since this is intimidating already for a city girl like me. I do a lot of cooking and baking (even though I don't eat most of the stuff I bake 
