Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Its Losing, not Loosing!!
coyote wrote:
Wow, BastardSquad.
I assumed mmasters was referring to the post right above his:
Last_Laff wrote:
This is the same thing goes for "then" and "than". But I careless, perfectionism is overrated. Idiots whom thrive in spelling will end up in asylum.
DOH!!
Once again,
friends don't let friends drink and post. _________________ "Switzerland is small and neutral.We need to be more like Germany,ambitious and misunderstood!" Futurama
"As for the dieoff of 5E+09 people - not a problem, so long as I'm not one of them." Jack
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
I had an amusing and brilliant geology professor who was talking about survivors of "The Great 1906 San Francisco Earthquake". He was showing us copies of letters from them describing their lives under tents made from carpets, surprised they weren't sick from being in the elements. What was really interesting was he pointed out the fine penmanship, grammar and spelling of these average everyday people. I think a lot of that came from studying words and language; much like we study TV today.
But it really impressed me and I thought I'd mention it. If oil means less TV and less computer junk; our kids might learn grammar and how to spell! That's got to be at least one bright spot for a future with out oil.
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1197 Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
thuja wrote:
.....
PLease people- the word is losing, not loosing.
If I have to see that word loosing one more time, I am going to go insane........
I haven't noticed that one so often, but the one that gets me cranky is 'drug' instead of 'dragged'. As in 'he drug the bag off the table'. It doesn't even sound right. _________________ Kind regards, Katkinkate
"The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops,
but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
Masanobu Fukuoka
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6178 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:27 am Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
It's nice to see some support on this thread for standardized English. I'd expected more attacks against it (which tend to be generated most vigorously---naturally---by those who can't spell, apply standard grammatical rules, etc.).
Of course, the problems with today's state of written English go far beyond spelling and grammar and penetrate to the very meaning of our writing. Logic and reasoning are increasingly tilted into an abyss of confusion, even nonsense. In the worst cases, people may end up saying the exact opposite of what they mean!
And then there's so much redundancy and "padding"---so many wasted words that add little or nothing.
In longer pieces, organization is often hopeless, with section or chapter headings that bear little relation to the material that follows them.
I spent 27 years as a professional editor (for several scientific journals whose names you'd recognize) and have literally seen it all. And I've watched the deterioration progress steadily. It's frightening how many M.D.s and Ph.D.s out there can barely translate their thoughts into clear written words. My job as an editor was often to figure out what they meant and then say it for them.
Of course, THEY got all the credit.
One of the difficulties, on the editorial side, is that anyone can call himself an editor and set himself up in that business. As a result, there are plenty of bad editors out there alongside the bad writers. In an effort to address this problem, an organization called the Board of Editors in the Life Sciences established a certification program for editors that is now globally recognized:
In general, I think the quality of the writing on PO.com is remarkably good, which is greatly to the credit of its members. People seem to make an effort to compose their posts well, and this makes a real difference in what we're all trying to achieve here. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 2125 Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:01 am Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
katkinkate wrote:
Well, Heineken. I'm impressed. Landed and literate!
So very Jeffersonian ... _________________ “Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
Quote:
I had an amusing and brilliant geology professor who was talking about survivors of "The Great 1906 San Francisco Earthquake". He was showing us copies of letters from them describing their lives under tents made from carpets, surprised they weren't sick from being in the elements. What was really interesting was he pointed out the fine penmanship, grammar and spelling of these average everyday people. I think a lot of that came from studying words and language; much like we study TV today. Laughing
It's a 7 min video of his stand-up from 2000 on Comedy Central. It's about stupidity in America. 5:40 to the end applies to this thread.
Quote:
But it really impressed me and I thought I'd mention it. If oil means less TV and less computer junk; our kids might learn grammar and how to spell! That's got to be at least one bright spot for a future with out oil.
I've always noticed that I tend to speak with more clarity and a greater vocabulary after I've been reading classical works. I believe that this is a fundamental problem in today's society. We've shifted away from reading Dickens and the like for fun to reading Harry Potter and Steven King. Let's hope that the former returns to its rightful place. _________________ I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
Heineken wrote:
Of course, the problems with today's state of written English go far beyond spelling and grammar and penetrate to the very meaning of our writing. Logic and reasoning are increasingly tilted into an abyss of confusion, even nonsense. In the worst cases, people may end up saying the exact opposite of what they mean!
And then there's so much redundancy and "padding"---so many wasted words that add little or nothing.
That's not English, Heineken, it Legalese - the great Loophole Creator.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6178 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
Certainly, Basil, that's another facet of it: The deliberate misuse of language to obfuscate and deceive (a la "1984" and "Animal Farm"), to sell, or to try to sound important far beyond the actual basis for significance. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6178 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
mekrob wrote:
I've always noticed that I tend to speak with more clarity and a greater vocabulary after I've been reading classical works. I believe that this is a fundamental problem in today's society. We've shifted away from reading Dickens and the like for fun to reading Harry Potter and Steven King. Let's hope that the former returns to its rightful place.
There were "trash" novels in the 19th century too, mekrob. Stuff that is as forgotten today as today's junk will be tomorrow. But it least it could spell "definitely" and its subjects agreed with its verbs.
Dickens's material, interestingly, was great literature marketed as trash.
You're right; reading classical works (especially material from the 19th century, which is temporally closest to us and which therefore bears comparison most reasonably) is an object lesson in how crude today's written English has become, for the most part.
We think today's culture is superior in every way, but in reality even the bulk of the educated set has turned into grunting apes. That I learned in editing some 5,000 scholarly papers, ye gads.
Yet, I would be the first to admit to monstrous ignorance on a depressingly large array of subjects. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Last edited by Heineken on Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6178 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
Would anyone care to speculate on WHY English has gone to hell? _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
coyote wrote:
At the risk of arousing feminist ire, two that get a groan from me are 'womyn' and 'wimmin.' Really, can't we have a discussion without expressing our outrage by deliberately mispelling words? It's like bucking the establishment by putting your pants on backwards.
Of course, perhaps I'm just being an insensitive myn.
('Grrrl,' on the other hand... oh, behave!)
Hmm, I spent far too many years in grad school, but I thought womyn was feminist and wimmin was redneck. Could be me though.
Another one: Plural's are not created with apostrophes. Possessives are.
Joined: Aug 27, 2006 Posts: 123 Location: occupied Canada
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
It's all much of a muchness as my dear old Mom used to say. There is a retreat from reason. If you don't question the conventional paradigm you get to live in a McMansion and drive a SUV. Of course it does give rise to a certain cognitive dissidence, short attention span and denial of reality, like Peak Oil. Poor grammar follows from unclear thinking. See Al Gores' new book Assault On Reason. What can we expect when politicians, media and business bombard us with constant untruths?
We were sitting at the dining room table with friends when the definition of a word came up for discussion. My sister got the dictionary. This guy accused her of cheating because she got reference material.
I am so glad that I don't do corporate business meetings any more. I've stopped reading Dilbert. People would make these statements that only sounded like they meant something. I've even seen them vote on the laws of physics! Now I don't have to use a Bafflegab Generator or play Buzzword Bingo
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: It's Losing, not Loosing!!
Heineken wrote:
Would anyone care to speculate on WHY English has gone to hell?
I don't know. This subject always reminds of the man who bragged that he was the only one to ever give his wife an organism!
Personally, I love words, eloquent or succinct expression, and generally good writing that perfectly fits it's purpose. WordWeb sits in my System Tray, Etymology Online and Thesaurus are permanent residents on my Links Bar, and I get A Word A Day every weekday in email (which I save for future review!).
My favorite author is Joseph Conrad, a true master of English prose. I recommend "Tales Of Unrest", a collection of 6 short stories, or "The Heart Of Darkness" to anyone who wants to fathom the beauty of English prose from the hand of a master.
I read a spectacularly well-written trilogy of the rise, the peak, and the decline of the British Empire by English eccentric Jan/James Morris. It begins with Heaven's Command: An Imperial Progress. I had to have the dictionary handy always for those works. I've been meaning to read them all again. _________________ "May you live in interesting times"
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