How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: A simple bunker idea..."the tube"
Quote:
"BTW, if you want to booby trap a root cellar, which should be airtight by design, place something like a kerosene lamp in it. It will burn until it runs out of oxygen, meanwhile filling the air with carbon monoxide. The air will remain lethal for quite some time. You can come home and drag (hoist in your case ) the dead maurauders out at your leisure. You can also produce lamp black this way."
I LOVE THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! _________________ So call me a pessimist. But the only truly positive thing I enjoy - is time with my kids - every blazingly bright day that I can steal from my corporate plantation owner. - writer unknown
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3428 Location: California, USA
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:02 am Post subject: Re: A simple bunker idea..."the tube"
Hmm, so far no one else seems to have answers for water and sanitation.
First of all, if the issue is a tornado, you're only down there for a few hours at most. Unless it's terribly bad outside, you can go out to relieve yourself in a handy bucket. It's still a good idea to store water in the event a storm takes down the local water supply.
If the issue is nuclear weapons fallout, you're going to be down there for three weeks to a month. In that case you need sufficient water for washing, and a change of clothes (at least underwear) about every three days, and you need to wash.
Water can be stored in metal or preferably food-grade plastic drums with tight lids, filled before you go down there and dosed with bleach as appropriate.
Plastic containers lined with plastic bags can be used as expedient toilets, plus or minus the ferocious stench. Some kind of privacy screen helps considerably. Best place for the crapper is next to the exhaust air outlet so the stench goes up the stack. However, smart hostiles will know to follow their noses back to you and your supplies.
Re. someone parking a car and running a hose from the exhaust: the right ammo through the right place in the car will deal with that, or have your air supply reversible so you can suck fresh air in at the other end and blow the exhaust out. Then when Mr. Badguy comes down looking for you, *bang!*
This also demonstrates the value of good recon & surveillance. Tiny video cameras can be concealed at a distance, connected via buried wiring, and operated on minimal power derived from a pedal-powered generator inside the shelter. Panasonic makes a nice home entry system with a small color flat-screen display, that presumably uses minimal power. Don't forget the audio, it might net you some conversations about the intentions of whoever's up there. You don't want wireless because it depends on batteries, and it emits RF that people such as yours truly will be intercepting and RDFing.
You probably want a hardwired landline telephone down there. You would be surprised, the telephones may very well work when everything else is down. Use a 2500 set or equivalent (GPO 746, NTT 600, etc. and their DTMF variants) so it's not susceptible to EMP.
You probably also want broadband radio receivers, with their antennae concealed one way or another aboveground. If the area is clear of hostiles with RDF capability, some kind of 2-way radio is also useful for contacting others who may be similarly hiding in their holes. Put the antennae for the 2-way radios in different locations from those for the broadband receivers, so the former don't saturate the latter.
---
Re. building codes: Seems to me the 2nd Amendment trumps the building code. A fallout shelter arguably falls under the header of arms you have a right to keep and bear.
Aside from which, if you go through the permit process, your plans will become public in all detail, and you may as well paint a great big target on the ground above your hidey-hole.
Do it on the sly.
Dig it out with picks and shovels. Use concrete-filled cinderblock masonry walls, or poured concrete. Few things are quite as conspicuous as a cement truck sitting in front of your house, so mix the stuff on site (second-hand electric mixers can be gotten on the cheap, presumably via Craig's List or local classifieds). Use as little water in the concrete as possible: a stiff mix is a strong mix. Moist-cure it for at least a week after pouring.
Take the excavated earth and spread it around the property for decorative landscaping. Do this as you go, so there aren't any telltell large piles left sitting around looking like mounds of elephant poop ("but we just had a Republican fundraiser at the house..!"). Put someone in charge of planting expedient flowers and suchlike atop the spread-out earth to make it look as if it's been there a while. Depending on your soil you may want to mix in some peat moss or chicken fertilizer or whatever to make stuff take root and grow faster.
Use camo netting to disguise the construction site from the aerial snoops that operate on behalf of city permit offices. The netting can be laid on the ground where it will look more or less like a mangey lawn. When you're done and you're in the process of backfilling the whole thing, put a brick-on-sand patio atop it or some other harmless bit of backyard landscaping stuff, or better yet a food crop garden, to show the building inspector if s/he happens to mosey around.
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: A simple bunker idea..."the tube"
gg3 wrote:
Use camo netting to disguise the construction site from the aerial snoops that operate on behalf of city permit offices. The netting can be laid on the ground where it will look more or less like a mangey lawn. When you're done and you're in the process of backfilling the whole thing, put a brick-on-sand patio atop it or some other harmless bit of backyard landscaping stuff, or better yet a food crop garden, to show the building inspector if s/he happens to mosey around.
Building a storage facility without people knowing is very difficult. So I could see building the root cellar into a crawl space as a simple solution that wouldn't upset the neighbors.
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: Re: A simple bunker idea..."the tube"
Doly wrote:
Roccland wrote:
Ok...so the bunker I chose is 25' long x 8' diameter with a 3' manhole entrance at one end and a 6" vent at the other.
And under what circumstances, exactly, would you use your bunker?
Sounds like a loaded question, but here is the short answer...
When lights go out in Phoenix.
Now my question to you...why do you ask?
It should be fairly obvious if you have done any amount of reading related to:
1) Overshoot
2) PO
3) Global economic collapse
4) Pandemics
5) Racial wars
Or maybe you have not done that much reading or you have but have spent too much time at the key board and forgot about doing preps while questioning others about their preps. _________________ So call me a pessimist. But the only truly positive thing I enjoy - is time with my kids - every blazingly bright day that I can steal from my corporate plantation owner. - writer unknown
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: A simple bunker idea..."the tube"
Ive got a couple ideas to hide the entrance and vent from angry people coming through your neighborhood. First, plant shrubs around the entrance and vent, but make it look like they are part of your nice landscaping. Use shrubs that are not very thick, if a person is looking for someone and can see right through the shrub, chances are he wont go investigate and make sure no one is hiding behind it, which could lead to him discovering your man hole. The shrubs could also help hide the you when you decide you need to peak out. Second you could rig a small CO2 cartridge to like a very wide mouth small cannon(or something). Then load the small cannon with leaves and twigs and whatever else is found on the ground around your house. Then wire it to a button in the bunker. So once your inside it blows leaves all over the entrance and it doesnt look like someone has been walking through there. I dont know if the C02 would be the thing to use but you get the picture.
Another thing, I dont know if you considered was the terrain around your bunker entrance. Is it on higher ground than everything around it? not only because of water, but gas and smoke may settle into the low spots.
Also have you considered digging an escape tunnel, just in case. Then set up surveillance watching it and rig a charge to collapse the tunnel if someone finds it.
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: A simple bunker idea..."the tube"
burtonridr wrote:
Ive got a couple ideas to hide the entrance and vent from angry people coming through your neighborhood. First, plant shrubs around the entrance and vent, but make it look like they are part of your nice landscaping. Use shrubs that are not very thick, if a person is looking for someone and can see right through the shrub, chances are he wont go investigate and make sure no one is hiding behind it, which could lead to him discovering your man hole. The shrubs could also help hide the you when you decide you need to peak out. Second you could rig a small CO2 cartridge to like a very wide mouth small cannon(or something). Then load the small cannon with leaves and twigs and whatever else is found on the ground around your house. Then wire it to a button in the bunker. So once your inside it blows leaves all over the entrance and it doesnt look like someone has been walking through there. I dont know if the C02 would be the thing to use but you get the picture.
Another thing, I dont know if you considered was the terrain around your bunker entrance. Is it on higher ground than everything around it? not only because of water, but gas and smoke may settle into the low spots.
Also have you considered digging an escape tunnel, just in case. Then set up surveillance watching it and rig a charge to collapse the tunnel if someone finds it.
ROTFLMAO!!
Nice!! leaf shooting cannon!!
I do not expect to live in this although I probably could.
It really is for food storage. _________________ So call me a pessimist. But the only truly positive thing I enjoy - is time with my kids - every blazingly bright day that I can steal from my corporate plantation owner. - writer unknown
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 2125 Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: A simple bunker idea..."the tube"
Roccland wrote:
Quote:
"BTW, if you want to booby trap a root cellar, which should be airtight by design, place something like a kerosene lamp in it. It will burn until it runs out of oxygen, meanwhile filling the air with carbon monoxide. The air will remain lethal for quite some time. You can come home and drag (hoist in your case ) the dead maurauders out at your leisure. You can also produce lamp black this way."
I LOVE THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me also point out that at this point in history, booby trapping anything could get one in serious trouble with law enforcement personnel. _________________ “Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: A simple bunker idea..."the tube"
TheTurtle wrote:
Roccland wrote:
Quote:
"BTW, if you want to booby trap a root cellar, which should be airtight by design, place something like a kerosene lamp in it. It will burn until it runs out of oxygen, meanwhile filling the air with carbon monoxide. The air will remain lethal for quite some time. You can come home and drag (hoist in your case ) the dead maurauders out at your leisure. You can also produce lamp black this way."
I LOVE THIS SITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me also point out that at this point in history, booby trapping anything could get one in serious trouble with law enforcement personnel.
Agreed and I would never ever even think about breaking the law...not even a second thought about that...
now where did that package from Buck Shots Camp go...I thought I put it on the frig...hmmmmm.... _________________ So call me a pessimist. But the only truly positive thing I enjoy - is time with my kids - every blazingly bright day that I can steal from my corporate plantation owner. - writer unknown
"I got books on roof framing, post framing, and things like that, so that I would have the formulas available to calculate the loads properly so the roof wouldn't collapse on me while I was sleeping," added Rounds.
A car battery serves as the main source of power for a small light and clock just above his bed.
That car battery is also connected to a spliced extension cord that powers a radio with speakers inside and outside of the bunker.
There's a fireplace with a vent that serves as a heat source and stove.
And then there's the issue of a bathroom.
Mychajliw: "This is somewhat of an embarrassing question, it's the first thing I thought of: what about a bathroom?"
Rounds: "The bathroom? I use the porta-john that I got from one of the elderly people in the neighborhood. They donated it to me, because they knew I needed that."
It isn't exactly a porta-john.
It's a walker that has a toilet seat positioned over a bucket.
And here is a hobbit like setup (the coolest design)...
"I got books on roof framing, post framing, and things like that, so that I would have the formulas available to calculate the loads properly so the roof wouldn't collapse on me while I was sleeping," added Rounds.
A car battery serves as the main source of power for a small light and clock just above his bed.
That car battery is also connected to a spliced extension cord that powers a radio with speakers inside and outside of the bunker.
There's a fireplace with a vent that serves as a heat source and stove.
And then there's the issue of a bathroom.
Mychajliw: "This is somewhat of an embarrassing question, it's the first thing I thought of: what about a bathroom?"
Rounds: "The bathroom? I use the porta-john that I got from one of the elderly people in the neighborhood. They donated it to me, because they knew I needed that."
It isn't exactly a porta-john.
It's a walker that has a toilet seat positioned over a bucket.
And here is a hobbit like setup (the coolest design)...
the tube has spent almost a year in the ground - has been as cold as 60 and as warm as 82 (on a 115 day).
Air is very thin - I need to get the vent fan hooked up.
I found a trusted site steward who is now living at this location and she has begun the garden. Have citrus and pomagranets at this location planted because it is lower in elevation.
This week we closed on a small farmlette about 2 hours north and higher of this location and will be planting colder climate trees soon - apples/pears/peaches/walnuts/almonds...garden goes in soon as well - kicking around some composting ideas now.
I think i will bury a smaller version of this on the farmlette maybe 12x8 instead of 25x8.
We are putting together a "last chance" box...it is 3x5x2...can hold some food, first aid/gun/jackets/ etc...we will bury this at a currently unidentified third location - when we are over run by zombies this will be our final destination I expect.
Hope you and the wifey are well - thanks for the postcard...
BTW still making her lunches everyday?
Keep well.
R _________________ "There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
"... hope is a rotten-thighed whore" Niko Kazantzakis
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: A simple bunker idea..."the tube"
the idea is good
hopwever what about floods and lightning
I can imagine such a steel tube will be a great torch during lightningstorms
second, you need at least 60 cm of earth covered over it and not leave it open like that
I do agree with the idea, and the necessaty of building shelter and storage
and I also believe that such shelter should be nuke proof, since your government is so eager to start World War III
Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Posts: 4236 Location: The Great Sonoran Desert
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: A simple bunker idea..."the tube"
notwithmeyouwont wrote:
the idea is good
hopwever what about floods and lightning
I can imagine such a steel tube will be a great torch during lightningstorms
second, you need at least 60 cm of earth covered over it and not leave it open like that
I do agree with the idea, and the necessaty of building shelter and storage
and I also believe that such shelter should be nuke proof, since your government is so eager to start World War III
The "tube" is buried 18 feet in the ground...there is a concrete pad over the top.
Thanks for the link - _________________ "There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
"... hope is a rotten-thighed whore" Niko Kazantzakis
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