Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!
In April, 1975, in an issue mostly taken up with stories about the collapse of the American-backed government of South Vietnam, NEWSWEEK published a small back-page article about a very different kind of disaster. Citing "ominous signs that the earth's weather patterns have begun to change dramatically," the magazine warned of an impending "drastic decline in food production." Political disruptions stemming from food shortages could affect "just about every nation on earth." Scientists urged governments to consider emergency action to head off the terrible threat of . . . well, if you had been following the climate-change debates at the time, you'd have known that the threat was: global cooling.
There's no question that if the ocean warms, the water will expand and sea level will rise. But that's just one factor. Another factor is that mountain glaciers will tend to melt and, therefore, add water to rivers, and rivers will add the water to the ocean, and that also will produce a rise.
But counterbalancing this is the fact that more water will evaporate from the ocean because it's now warmer. And this will come down as rain all over the earth. And some of the rain will come down over the Antarctic, where it will turn into ice and accumulate.
In April, 1975, in an issue mostly taken up with stories about the collapse of the American-backed government of South Vietnam, NEWSWEEK published a small back-page article about a very different kind of disaster. Citing "ominous signs that the earth's weather patterns have begun to change dramatically," the magazine warned of an impending "drastic decline in food production." Political disruptions stemming from food shortages could affect "just about every nation on earth." Scientists urged governments to consider emergency action to head off the terrible threat of . . . well, if you had been following the climate-change debates at the time, you'd have known that the threat was: global cooling.
So? They were wrong, the science is much better today, and now we know that the cooling was from decreased sunlight due to particulate pollution from burning dirty fuel. We've cleaned up the particulate pollution and now the warming is faster.
See this video: Global Dimming
There's no question that if the ocean warms, the water will expand and sea level will rise. But that's just one factor. Another factor is that mountain glaciers will tend to melt and, therefore, add water to rivers, and rivers will add the water to the ocean, and that also will produce a rise.
But counterbalancing this is the fact that more water will evaporate from the ocean because it's now warmer. And this will come down as rain all over the earth. And some of the rain will come down over the Antarctic, where it will turn into ice and accumulate.
Singer isn't worth spending any time on, he's a shill paid by Exxon. He also got paid by Phillip Morris to claim there's no scientific evidence linking cigarettes to lung cancer. _________________ Joe P. United Political Debate
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Global Cooling
joewp wrote:
So? They were wrong, the science is much better today
One thing I've learned studying the history of science is that scientists are almost always wrong. I'd say scientists have it wrong 99% of the time. Therefore I have absolutely zero faith in Global Cooling or the Global Warming Hoax. _________________ The Lies Of Richard Heinberg
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 981 Location: "Mad as Hell !"
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Global Cooling
OilIsMastery wrote:
One thing I've learned studying the history of science is that scientists are almost always wrong. I'd say scientists have it wrong 99% of the time. Therefore I have absolutely zero faith in Global Cooling or the Global Warming Hoax.
Science never pretends to be "right". Scientists only present a theory based on the best available facts at the time and it remains until refined or proven wrong.
So far, for over 100 years, the theory of anthropogenic climate change due to GHG has stood the test. Presently there are no other theories that would explain current temperature increases.
If it’s a hoax, you would then have to give a better explanation of why it's happening?
The very fact that you’re presently communicating on a scientific marvel proves your statement to be a non sequitur. _________________ The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Global Cooling
Lore wrote:
So far, for over 100 years, the theory of anthropogenic climate change due to GHG has stood the test.
Based upon what evidence? There is zero evidence that carbon dioxide (CO2) is causing our climate change let alone man made CO2. There have been times in the past where CO2 levels were higher than they are today. CO2 is good for the environment. Without it the plants would die off.
Quote:
Presently there are no other theories that would explain current temperature increases.
LOL. Including Global Warming.
Quote:
If it’s a hoax, you would then have to give a better explanation of why it's happening?
Temperatures go up and they go down regardless of CO2 levels. How do you explain that? Climates change. That is the nature of climate. _________________ The Lies Of Richard Heinberg
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Global Cooling
The concentration of CO2 went from 200 to 380 ppmillion in the past 100 years. There is a very strong correlation between CO2 levels and warming. The spike in CO2 and warming is followed by a cooling trend, that leads to an ice age. The "normal" state of the earth in the past million years is an ice age. We are in an interglacial period, but our burning of fossil fuels may tip us back into an ice age. The melting of Greenland may screw up the North Atlantic Oscillation, which could cause Northern Europe to get colder because the Gulf Stream can't reach it, since it's buried under all that cold glacial meltwater. It's happened before. There was a huge dam near Hudson's bay that let loose enough cold water that the climate stayed cold for a thousand years or so.
We don't really know what we're messing with. I think that if we keep running the heater with all the windows open, the landlord will shut off the heat. Don't mess with Gaia. Lovelock thinks that GW is on a track to cook the planet into inhospitable deserts and that it won't recover for 10, 000 years. Global warming is happening 3 times faster than the most dire predictions. Besides, why not do something about it? It would solve a lot of our problems with peak oil and slow down the consumption of finite resources. Why is that a bad thing?
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 1717 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Global Cooling
OilIsMastery wrote:
Lore wrote:
So far, for over 100 years, the theory of anthropogenic climate change due to GHG has stood the test.
Based upon what evidence? There is zero evidence that carbon dioxide (CO2) is causing our climate change let alone man made CO2. There have been times in the past where CO2 levels were higher than they are today. CO2 is good for the environment. Without it the plants would die off.
Quote:
Presently there are no other theories that would explain current temperature increases.
LOL. Including Global Warming.
Quote:
If it’s a hoax, you would then have to give a better explanation of why it's happening?
Temperatures go up and they go down regardless of CO2 levels. How do you explain that? Climates change. That is the nature of climate.
OK, you've made your submission. I will consider it. Now move along please, Jeeves has arrived with my tea and scones. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 1610 Location: Springsteen Country (NJ)
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Global Cooling
OilIsMastery wrote:
Lore wrote:
So far, for over 100 years, the theory of anthropogenic climate change due to GHG has stood the test.
Based upon what evidence? There is zero evidence that carbon dioxide (CO2) is causing our climate change let alone man made CO2. There have been times in the past where CO2 levels were higher than they are today. CO2 is good for the environment. Without it the plants would die off.
Your personal ignorance isn't the best foundation on which to discuss this subject. Maybe you should read up on the history of global warming here first, it goes back a lot further than you think. There's plenty of evidence that has gone through the peer-review process and has been found to be factual as far as we can know. Here's a FAQ for you to read, and here's another site that will help you understand the evidence and conclusions arrived at from that evidence. You haven't even scratched the surface of the debate if you think Singer is someone to be listened to on this. He's a farce, he's an electrical engineer and a physicist, not a climate scientist. Asking him for his opinion about climatology is like asking your mechanic if your piano needs tuning.
Once you've read these sources, feel free to come back and discuss this subject more if you like. Otherwise, please don't bother bringing up old, tires crap that has been debunked here many times, thanks. _________________ Joe P. United Political Debate
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 981 Location: "Mad as Hell !"
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Global Cooling
OilIsMastery wrote:
Based upon what evidence? There is zero evidence that carbon dioxide (CO2) is causing our climate change let alone man made CO2. There have been times in the past where CO2 levels were higher than they are today. CO2 is good for the environment. Without it the plants would die off.
We have plenty of evidence that high levels of CO2 increase temperatures which is consistent with observable data; such as, Satellite Data, Radiosondes, Borehole analysis, Glacial melt observations, Sea ice melt, Sea level rise, Proxy Reconstructions and Permafrost melt.
Not even the most skeptical of scientists would deny that CO2 is a GHG.
When C02 levels were higher in the past it was during periods of a "young sun" which produced less irradiance, or during a time of heavy concentrations of atmospheric aerosol particles, (see Global Dimming).
While just enough CO2 is good, a lot is not. Try telling the many millions of people who will suffer in the coming years how good it will be for them! This response is an example when a little knowledge of science can be a dangerous thing.
Lore wrote:
Presently there are no other theories that would explain current temperature increases.
OilIsMastery wrote:
LOL. Including Global Warming.
Then you have a better theory for increased temperatures since in fact temperatures are rising; what is it?
What evidence would you consider as proof that global warming is caused by rising CO2 levels?
OilIsMastery wrote:
Climates change. That is the nature of climate. Temperatures go up and they go down regardless of CO2 levels.
This is a unsophisticated response to what is a historically rare and dramatically rapid change in climate. Such swift changes in the past have led to major extinction events. _________________ The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 218 Location: No. Calif.
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Global Cooling
OilIsMastery wrote:
Quote:
One thing I've learned studying the history of science is that scientists are almost always wrong. I'd say scientists have it wrong 99% of the time. Therefore I have absolutely zero faith in Global Cooling or the Global Warming Hoax.
I presume you are including all of history. Let's see, the last 100 years is .5% of recorded history (>2000 years). Nop, you are still wrong by a lot. Gee, I wonder how everything works so well in this technological civilization if most of what we know is still false?
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Global Cooling
joewp wrote:
OilIsMastery wrote:
Lore wrote:
So far, for over 100 years, the theory of anthropogenic climate change due to GHG has stood the test.
Based upon what evidence? There is zero evidence that carbon dioxide (CO2) is causing our climate change let alone man made CO2. There have been times in the past where CO2 levels were higher than they are today. CO2 is good for the environment. Without it the plants would die off.
Your personal ignorance isn't the best foundation on which to discuss this subject. Maybe you should read up on the history of global warming here first, it goes back a lot further than you think. There's plenty of evidence that has gone through the peer-review process and has been found to be factual as far as we can know. Here's a FAQ for you to read, and here's another site that will help you understand the evidence and conclusions arrived at from that evidence. You haven't even scratched the surface of the debate if you think Singer is someone to be listened to on this. He's a farce, he's an electrical engineer and a physicist, not a climate scientist. Asking him for his opinion about climatology is like asking your mechanic if your piano needs tuning.
Once you've read these sources, feel free to come back and discuss this subject more if you like. Otherwise, please don't bother bringing up old, tires crap that has been debunked here many times, thanks.
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: Global Cooling
Lore wrote:
Try telling the many millions of people who will suffer in the coming years how good it will be for them!
I agree that millions of people will suffer in the coming years and I can guarantee you it has nothing to do with global warming. Tell the people living in Siberia that global warming is bad for them.
Quote:
Then you have a better theory for increased temperatures since in fact temperatures are rising; what is it?
What evidence would you consider as proof that global warming is caused by rising CO2 levels?
Temperature change in the atmosphere is not correlated to CO2 levels. Are you telling me that on hot days there is more CO2 in the air then on cold days? _________________ The Lies Of Richard Heinberg
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