Toshiba's new battery makes peak oil a fantasy for you doome

vision-master

What happened to our future?

JohnLudi

dontworryaboutpeakoil,

If you believe so strongly in this, then what are you doing here? Don't you have better things to do with your time then try to convince us crazy deluded doomers (who probably amount to a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the populace) that we are worried about nothing?

If the doomers are wrong, then so what? Who cares? The issue will fade away as soon as your wonderous new techno-fix is implemented and the world will be a shiny happy place once more! Joy! The oil producing nations will go bankrupt, regular folks will all be living like kings, and us poor demented doomers will be sitting in the dark eating our MREs and blowing our noses into our hoarded toiletpaper.

Sooooo...you can go out and buy yourself a battery-operated Hummer (as soon as they hit the market...gotta be any day now) and the rest of us will sit around our stockpiles of beans and rice and pathos waiting for the energy apocalypse.

What's it to you?

Let's you and me make a deal. YOU live as if battery-operated cars are going to save our civilization and our future will be fuzzy bunnies and rainbows...and I'LL live as if they won't.

That work for you? Hmmmm?
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RdSnt

That you are enthusiastic about these batteries is nice, but I prefer to see this sort of news with a clearer eye to the practicalities of a deliverable product.
Toshiba hasn't published the discharge rate of the battery and I'd like to know how hot these things get in a rapid charge.
The battery is a none-standard voltage, which means you'll need to step-up the voltage to accommodate existing equipment. More R&D work and convince other manufacturers to change their products to take this new battery.
They don't have a manufacturing process for the batteries. They don't know how to scale up production yet. That's a none trivial matter. There are hundreds of promising products developed every year that don't make it to market cause they can't be scaled to mass production cycles.
Then of course, how long do you think it will take to get a meaningful number of electric cars on the road, that replace the gas users? Many, many years. In particular there are no cars that can use these batteries. Then, of course, your last comment about people not caring about how there car performs as long as it runs is quite laughable. Why then do with have so many large horsepower vehicles? Why so many sports cars? Why so many pickup trucks that never actually get used as they were designed?

mgtser · Tar Sands Joined: Jul 25, 2007 Posts: 20

emo evolution stage

1. denial

2. anger

3 despair or hope

dontworry, i hope you choose "Hope"

there is a better future.... keep that in mind

Windmills

How is it that we're saved when you've made no mention of how you're going to deal with all the other depleting resources and our current desire for infinite economic and population growth? I'm not trying to change the subject or set up a straw man because peak oil is, in a very large part, about too many people consuming too much, too fast in a finite world. Any solution that you throw at the problem has to take those things into consideration, or it's just a delaying measure at best, a waste of very valuable time and money otherwise. Peak oil is just one piece of a much larger depletion puzzle. As far as I can tell, the answers to all of them are basically the same: slow down, grown down, and live within the renewable limits of a finite world. There are a ton of holes in the battery "solution." This is probably the biggest.

cestlavie · Tar Sands Joined: Feb 12, 2007 Posts: 79

The oil on the right hand side of the bell curve will be much less profitable to extract than the oil on the lefthand side, even at some point Y becoming unprofitable to extract - even at high oil prices! We are at midpoint and certainly not all remaining oil in the ground will be extracted, even while this fact presents itself, our civilization is starting to ramp up now in terms of demand.

We use the energy equivalent 840 gallons (20 barrels) to build the average car. In ten years there will be another ~1 billion people and another 100 million cars on the earth, China is 2nd behind the US in oil consumption with 1+ billion people and is rapidly industrializing. Ideally each new human born would (like) to use a car to get to work, one gallon of gas has the equivalent energy of 400-500 man labor hours. We are burning the last few hours of ancient sunlight - plant matter condensed during the Carboniferous Period, which lasted 70 million years and extended from 330 to 410 million years ago, our civilization is a spark, our awareness is a mere spark of a spark and already we can see the result of all this (burning of condensed plant matter). I think it is time for a change. The forward momentum is too great and no one is looking to change, and look back in time. Our resource demands are only greater... global cars

dontworryaboutpeakoil · Heavy Crude Joined: Oct 22, 2004 Posts: 114

No, what is laughable among you doomers is the complete denial that there is any other POSSIBLE outcome of Peak Oil except a massive die-off and end of civilization as we know it. Peak Oil MUST end in a massive irrecoverable collapse according to you guys.

Who is in denial?

You guys deny that Peak Oil is not really an energy Peak but LIQUID Energy PEAK. You insist that Peak Oil is a crisis for ALL energy production! That is untrue.

Who here is in denial? Me or you guys?

Facts:
1. OIL = Liquid.
2. 85% of our Oil use is in transportation.

Hence, the great problem of Peak Oil is how do we replace Oil for our transportation needs?

Answer: An advanced Battery.

Electricity can be generated in any number of ways. Ideally, we'd use the South West of the USA with it's abundant Sunlight, and create massive fields of Solar Panel to collect and generate Electricity. Or the African Continent can be harnessed to also capture Solar Energy.

Sure, it will be expensive to create the infrastructure, but not as expensive as you think. A new Industry will rise along with new jobs.

And you are kidding yourselves if you think that Electric cars cannot be high HP / Torque. I can see an Electric Pickup truck wiht 400+ HP/500/lb Torque with a 400 Mile range. So what difference will it make if it's electric? When gas prices soar to 6-10$ / gallon, people will look for alternatives.

Toyota's next generation Prius will use these advanced Toshiba Batteries. Yeah, the Prius is delayed for one year because of battery issue but you know Toyota and Toshiba will get it working soon. It's a minor problem that will be overcome. The Battery Technology is there, and will work.

When we have a Prius that goes 100 MPG, or 150MPG, or 200 MPG, or even ALL-Electric PRiuses with 450 Miles Range on a single charge that takes 1 minute, then we will have arrived at a real solution to Peak Oil. And I think this is coming very very soon.

vision-master

The religion of doomers............ You ain't changing their minds.

I'm flying with the flock of civilization (right in the middle) to wherever it goes. To Hell with all this doomer talk.

JRP3 · Heavy Crude Joined: Oct 23, 2006 Posts: 396

You seem to ignore the fact that the problem is not just "Peak Oil" but "Peak Population". How are these or any batteries going to feed the exploding population? How will it help with rampant pollution, human waste, garbage, water quality, etc.? I'm all for battery improvements and EV's but they are only part of the equation.
Also, unless these batteries are very cheap they won't translate into mass produced vehicles.
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burtonridr · Intermediate Crude Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 763

Ok even if you replace the cars, how are you going to replace the super tankers that carry massive amounts of food, clothing and other goods from over seas? Dont say we can make them here, because although it may create jobs it will increase the price for the consumers and it wont be like turning on a switch it will result in an economical depression. Or the big rig trucks that have a 600 hp engine and about 2000+ lbs of torque? Or diesel trains?

Im hearing you say all this stuff about how it could be done, but your obviously not doing research on the numbers as you have failed to give specific data on the issue. Until then I would have to say the numbers just dont add up.

Did you see this thread? This country is a prime example of what is going to happen. Read the article it references.

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic31680.html
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coyote

coyote

Bottom line: thinking like yours -- to the effect that the decline in petroleum will be made up from other energy sources -- is the very reason that peak oil will be an energy disaster, and not just a liquid fuels crisis.
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Graeme

Batteries are passe.

The Dark Horse in the Race to Power Hybrid Cars

peripato · Heavy Crude Joined: May 03, 2005 Posts: 397

How is any of this supposed to substitute for cheap abundant oil and other fossil fuels as the stuff runs out? I mean is it mature, affordable, can it be scaled up quickly and on a worldwide basis? Quick enough to not only keep up with oil and other fossil fuel decline, but also support the added demands of a growing economy and population? Finally, what chance, assuming this or that was the technofix messiah, or messiahs, would this have of bringing about any sustainability of human numbers with the environment, (assuming this was still possible)? Any combination, or utilization of resources, which allows the population to keep growing only delays the final ecological day of reckoning.

JRP3 · Heavy Crude Joined: Oct 23, 2006 Posts: 396