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skyemoor
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Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1416
Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
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 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Housing Boom Officially Over - Collapse Imminent |
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| NotMyBlood wrote: | | skyemoor wrote: | | NotMyBlood wrote: |
You can live without a house, try living without a car. |
Not a problem at all in several hundred places, many of which are intended to be carfree; indeed a car can be a significant hindrance in such places.
But need a car to go where no mass transit takes you? Simply reserve one for the time you need it.
http://www.flexcar.com/
Looking outside the US? There are 600 cities that have carsharing today.
http://ecoplan.org/carshare/cs_index.htm |
thanks for the links, but is it really cheaper than owning? I mean, I need a car everyday, all day. How much does that cost a day?? |
You wouldn't have such a 'need' in a place I referenced in the link above. Other occasional needs could be met at low cost with a car-share service. Don't assume that car dependent neighborhoods are the only places one can live.
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http://www.carfree.com
http://ecoplan.org/carshare/cs_index.htm
http://www.velomobile.de/GB/Advantages/advantages.html
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He that lives upon hope will die fasting. --Benjamin Franklin |
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MattSavinar
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Joined: May 09, 2004
Posts: 1999
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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I'm 29 and have never owned one.
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Last_Laff
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Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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I'm 34 and I've never own one. But I own a bicycle and have been traveling afar.
To consider this; there'd be no Peak Oil in my lifetime.
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benzoil
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Joined: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Windy City No Longer
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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Most of Rural America would disintegrate in 5 days without cars. Sad, but true. I'm blessed with a 5 mile (easy bike ride) commute, but most people out here have 20-40 mile one way commutes. I'm not even sure carpooling would be much of an option. Should be interesting in a couple more years...
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padisah
Coal
Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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| benzoil wrote: | | Most of Rural America would disintegrate in 5 days without cars. Sad, but true. I'm blessed with a 5 mile (easy bike ride) commute, but most people out here have 20-40 mile one way commutes. I'm not even sure carpooling would be much of an option. Should be interesting in a couple more years... |
I don't have a car either (31), and don'teven plan to have in the near future.
And I think americans will have to experience the plesures of the rest of the world when they compress themselves up to commuting buses that go to the city.  |
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Byron100
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Sep 08, 2005
Posts: 749
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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| benzoil wrote: | | Most of Rural America would disintegrate in 5 days without cars. Sad, but true. I'm blessed with a 5 mile (easy bike ride) commute, but most people out here have 20-40 mile one way commutes. I'm not even sure carpooling would be much of an option. Should be interesting in a couple more years... |
The folks that have those 20-40 mile commutes are insane  I can't think of a worse torture to put myself under each day....especially coming in from the likes of the "exurbs" of the metro Atlanta area and crawling in a river of molasses in and out each day. How they manage to do that is beyond me 
I crave for the day that a major attack takes place in KSA or the like, shutting off the flow of oil from the ME, just to see what's it's like to see every car parked in America for a while.
I just want to see what that would be like...to experience a carless America at least once in my lifetime. |
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Bas
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Joined: Mar 26, 2005
Posts: 3758
Location: over here
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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| MattSavinar wrote: | I'm 29 and have never owned one.
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I'm 28 and have never owned one, but then again I think that's easier in Holland with cycling lanes on either side of almost every road and a comparatively outstanding masstransit system. I kind of dislike cars too for various reasons but I sometimes do rely on them for hauling big things. (though not often)
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Last edited by Bas on Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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benzoil
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Joined: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Windy City No Longer
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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| Byron100 wrote: | The folks that have those 20-40 mile commutes are insane I can't think of a worse torture to put myself under each day....especially coming in from the likes of the "exurbs" of the metro Atlanta area and crawling in a river of molasses in and out each day. How they manage to do that is beyond me
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Having recently returned to my one time home of Marietta, GA I can safely tell you that its not as godawful as metro Atlanta. Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo don't have much of a rush hour and most of the drive is at highway speeds.
That said, you still burn a ton of gas making the trip and without cars it's not possible.
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benzoil
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Joined: Aug 26, 2005
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Location: Windy City No Longer
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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| padisah wrote: | | And I think americans will have to experience the plesures of the rest of the world when they compress themselves up to commuting buses that go to the city. |
I hope we'll have those in a few years. It will take a decade or more for people to change where and how they live, so we'll need a way for them to get to work in the meantime.
I'm more worried that Americans will end up like the Greenland Norse. The Norse died out and the Inuit remained because the Inuit adapted to the environment. The idea of riding a bike to work is not just foreign to most Americans, it's looney. I rode my bike to work this summer (can't once school starts since I have to shuttle kids about) and people looked at me like I'd popped in from the moon.
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Concerned
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 1531
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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Considering the overwhelming majority of humanity does in fact live without a car the it's certainly possible.
I have owned 4 cars in my life and don't plan on giving it up until I can no longer afford to run one. Cars are convenient, time saving and an easy way to get around the city.
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darren
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Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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| Concerned wrote: | | Cars are convenient, time saving and an easy way to get around the city. |
Depends what traffic is like and what your alternatives are.
I live in Toronto, and am about to move within 6-7km of my workplace downtown. One of the benfits of moving, for me, is that I won't NEED a car. There are two grocery stores (plus various restaurants, banks, shops) and a subway stop within 2 blocks.
If I don't want to ride the subway it's an easy and pleasant bike ride downtown with superb woodsy bicycle lanes and paths for most of it (but you have to be able to handle downtown traffic... most people still think I'm crazy especially since I am 38 and not a poor kid, but there is a strong cycling subculture here and it's becoming more popular, plus it's actually quite fun and really easy to ride in traffic if you know what you are doing... most cyclists have no clue what they are doing but I digress).
I used to love my car, but now I hate it. I personally HATE driving in the city. I hate traffic, I hate hunting for parking, I hate paying for parking. From now on, if I can't easily reach a place by public transit or bicycle then it's probably not worth going to anyway. I also hate driving OUT of the city on weekends because everyone in Toronto has the same idea. I drove to Niagara Falls last month and the traffic was so bad I was ready to pull over and shoot myself... we go to these places for fun?
I'm sure that I might rent a car for the odd road trip in the future (if the oil holds out), or if I reaaaaaly need to drive to a suburban WalMart for some reason (won't need to do that more than a few times a year), but on the whole, my car will be for sale shortly and I don't anticipate that I'm going to miss it too much.
edit: i imagine that most of the people on this board think I will be dead (eaten by raving zombie cannibal city dwellers) within three years. |
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Polemic
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Joined: Sep 24, 2006
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Location: Austin, TX
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Doly
Expert
Joined: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 4034
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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| Let's bring that age figure up: I'm 35 and never owned a car, in fact, I never learned to drive. Which hasn't stopped me from having jobs that required commuting. I had to commute in five out of six jobs. One I managed by asking colleagues to drive me there, one by bus and three by train. |
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nocar
Intermediate Crude
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Joined: Nov 05, 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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benzoil wrote
| Quote: | | Most of Rural America would disintegrate in 5 days without cars. Sad, but true. I'm blessed with a 5 mile (easy bike ride) commute, but most people out here have 20-40 mile one way commutes. I'm not even sure carpooling would be much of an option. |
Commuting far to work is not a rural lifestyle. To work a farm a produce your own food so you only need to go shopping once a month is a rural lifestyle.
When I preach to people that cars really are not necessary, invariable to someone will say 'Yes, but if you live in the country you really need a car'. A rural lifestyle means that you have your job in the country as well as your home. For some country jobs, yes, cars seem necessary, like a veterinarian getting around visiting sick horses and cattle.
Farmers might also need trucks to move hay and produce around. Cars for transport of things in my mind are more utilitarian than cars for personal transport.
Over 99 procent of humans have legs to walk or bicycle, and if is too far public transport should be possible if we are talking about daily travels. Legs are necessary to reach public transport.
Living in the country and working in a city job is not rural living. It is a suburban lifestyle with an extra long commute.
'Daily life without a car, car use for special occasions' is my formula. 'Special occasions' should occur only few times of year, possible up to once a month,.
Apparently, when a country adapts to a car-oriented lifestyle, it is rarely rural people who first get cars. It is city people. It is driving in the city, being looked at by other city people, with is the real motivation for cars. Initially.
nocar |
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Revi
Fusion
Joined: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 3235
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live without a car? |
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I agree with nocar. The really rural areas are going to be the first to lose their cars. Think about this, when gasoline gets hard to get are they going to drive it way out in the country to service stations, or are they going to sell it closer at a better price? I'll bet that little town far out in the boonies will stop having gas stations. That will require people to drive an hour to the gas station and an hour back. That will eat up a half a tank. Now the car isn't so useful any more. Farms will have a supply, but easy motoring will be over in the really rural areas of this country.
I read that as recently as the 1930's farmers always brought a lot of stuff in to trade whenever they went to town. They didn't just drive around. They went to market. I can see this happening, but communting to a job in a town an hour away is already a losing proposition for most rural people. |
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