Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 3758 Location: over here
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
do you mean negative/pessimistic about the future or negative in the way people treat eachother on the forum? I don't think the former warrents the latter, but they do seem to go hand in hand quite often. Also I think it's a quality of the internet that makes people treat eachother in a more negative way than they might do in "meatspace". _________________ "The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time."
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12473 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Aaron, I think you misunderstand me. I'm talking about my personal survival, not anyone else's.
My "positivity" for me keeps me from committing suicide. I don't expect my positivity has much effect on other people except those looking for positivity, who may find themselves less despairing if they read something positive here.
I actually take this stuff seriously. For other people this board may be a game, for me it isn't. I assume we're talking about real things that may really happen. If I dwell on the negativity of that, it drives me to despair, so I don't dwell on it. This is a conscious decision. I honestly don't see the value in dwelling on the "we're screwed" aspect of things, personally. So far, nobody has given a compelling (for me) explanation of the value of negativity (or "reality" as some like to call it).
Wisconsin-cur, it should be clear I am in no way "confident" in my optimism. I have a tenuous hold on it at best.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12473 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Zardoz wrote:
"Why are you so damned negative about so many things?"
No, that is NOT the topic of this thread. You misunderstand it.
Quote:
It's really tough to be positive in the face of that reality.
It sure is. There's plenty to despair about. Why don't you try harder? Why is it important for you to dwell on the negative? I don't know if I'm asking this in the right way so you'll understand what I'm asking.
What benefit do you see in dwelling on the negative facts? Wisconsin cur seems to see a benefit in seeing "things as they are" but does not say why that is beneficial. To some people, the inevitability of zombie hordes is "seeing things as they are" though of course there are actually no zombie hordes, so this is not actually "things as they are." Right now "things as they are" are probably pretty damn good for most of us, if we have the money and leisure to type on messageboards. Yet constantly people talk about on here how screwed we are. Yes, we may be screwed in the future, but right now, we aren't screwed. Most of us are fine in reality, which is right now. The future is a projection, possibly accurate, possibly not, but in any case, possibly something we won't even experience.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12473 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
You see in my posts my confusion about these issues - about what is real and what is not, when I talk about taking this board seriously and the discussion of "real things that may really happen" and then talking about the reality of now (which is the only "real" reality).
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6428 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Like positivity, negativity may be a form of mental modeling. By exaggerating certain trends and characteristics of the world, we vicariously "experience" alternative forms of reality, including diverse possible futures.
My worldview is increasingly negative because facts and events seem to increasingly validate that attitude. I could be wrong, but that is my perception.
An important thing about negativity is not to internalize it. You seem to have difficulty with that, Ludi.
I will continue to find joy in this vale of tears even on its final day, in the unlikely even that I should live to see it. At the same time, my view that we're headed for the ashcan is unshakeable.
Just owning a dog is reason enough for me to want to live another day. _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Joined: Nov 28, 2004 Posts: 12390 Location: Neither Here Nor There
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Ludi wrote:
These are difficult issues for me.
Your observation about the confusing nature of our unique situation rings bells with me. Enjoy the present moments and let the devil take tomorrow or fret and worry about what will happen in just the coming months when Mexican oil exports shrivel up and blow away. I don't like negativity. For me the choice is either good cheer or stoicism & feeling little to nothing. I won't have the pendulum swinging past that midpoint into negativity, or at least not without disdainfully disguising it.
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3330 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
There are people who latch onto peak oil as a vindication of dark desires. Their postings - or Kunstler's books/Fark - make this pretty obvious. JHK wants to see all this horrible suburban junk ripped up for firewood, so we can go back to Anytown USA, rail lines, apartments above shops selling fresh produce, horse drawn buggies. You know, Norman Rockwell. He exudes revulsion at what's replaced it, and dismisses any evidence of schemes that would allow the current paradigm to continue, as do so many here. He isn't interested in or motivated to really prepare for survival, either - remember that Savinar asked him how ready he was in the BOB etc. department, fresh water, supplies. He had maybe an extra bottle of aspirin.
Many think their negativism will do people a favor in the end, that they'll keep people from wasting time trying to continue to conduct business as usual. From their perspective their actions are actually positive, and perhaps they're right. I doubt there's much an individual can do with much more than a small community to sway opinion. Perhaps they view this forum as such a community. _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
I will not abide another toe.
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
There is this fellow who claims that it is possible to calibrate truth vs. falsehood named David Hawkins. He works with kinesiology primarily.
Since this takes two and I for the most time don't have anyone to ask to hold out the arm I started to use a pendulum which leads to some results as well (mixed ones but nevertheless results).
In his arbitrary scale from 1 to 1000 the critical point of integrity is at 200. When calibrating PO.com it reaches a mere 175 points (the same as any military institution btw), which would explain why Peak Oilers are a negative bunch.
Nothing wrong with that in the first place or is there?!
Joined: Nov 25, 2006 Posts: 1424 Location: Columbia, South Carolina
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:10 am Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Aaron wrote:
Ludi wrote:
It's a matter of survival. Why is survival important to me? Because it's important to my husband.
No I mean why do you assume your "positivity" equates with survival?
People with positive attitudes live longer.
Negativity is bad for your health.
When you read about people living to 120, you generally don't read about how bitter, angry and cynical they were.
Longevity & health are generally correlated with a good attitude towards life and close, loving relationships. _________________ My PO Amazon store (shameless plug).
Joined: Nov 25, 2006 Posts: 1424 Location: Columbia, South Carolina
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:22 am Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
albente wrote:
There is this fellow who claims that it is possible to calibrate truth vs. falsehood named David Hawkins. He works with kinesiology primarily.
Since this takes two and I for the most time don't have anyone to ask to hold out the arm I started to use a pendulum which leads to some results as well (mixed ones but nevertheless results).
In his arbitrary scale from 1 to 1000 the critical point of integrity is at 200. When calibrating PO.com it reaches a mere 175 points (the same as any military institution btw), which would explain why Peak Oilers are a negative bunch.
Nothing wrong with that in the first place or is there?!
I just got his book from the library. IMO, at best the book is silly and at worst was an insult to my intelligence. His "scale of consciousness" might be useful to some but his (pseudo) science is highly flawed (when in doubt, fabricate stuff and hope your audience can't tell the difference seems to be his policy) and his self-aggrandizing was a major turnoff (according to Hawkins his book "vibrates" at a "highly level of truth" than Einstein).
The "scales of consciousness" like I said, can be useful. If Hawkins had stuck to philosophy and maybe self-help he might have had a very good book, but the idea that applied kinesiology can reveal the ultimate truth in any situation with 100% accuracy is bogus.
Read some the 1 and 2 star reviews here. Reading the 1 star reviews on Amazon is a good way to gauge a book or product. If the 1 star folks are obvious nutters with an agenda and the 5 starrers sound rational and make good points chances are you have a winner, in the case most of the 1 star people bring up valid points.
Such as that Hawkins claims "primitive societies" rate lower than our modern industrail one (I'd bet money he hasn't studied them at all) and that Walmart (that's right) is an example of a high-resonance company that cares about it's customers & employees. _________________ My PO Amazon store (shameless plug).
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6386 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:34 am Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Heineken wrote:
I will continue to find joy in this vale of tears even on its final day, in the unlikely event that I should live to see it. At the same time, my view that we're headed for the ashcan is unshakeable.
There you go. That's pretty much how it is for me.
Ya gotta laugh to keep from cryin'. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: Re: Why is negativity important to you?
Quote:
Wisconsin cur seems to see a benefit in seeing "things as they are" but does not say why that is beneficial.
When I say "benefit of seeing things how they are..." this would include not just the static view of one instant but the trajectory of events into the future. The benefit is that I can either get out of the way of the landslide or I can put my glove into the air to catch the pop fly (which might otherwise bean me on my bald head rendering me unconscious). The benefit is to be able to anticipate, good or bad in order to maximize benefit (if there is benefit to be had) or minimize loss.
I think our cultural situation warrents some good healthy negativity because if we are to weather the approaching storm we need to be prepared for it in all that it may deliver upon us. I have yet to hear of someone boarding up their home or evacuating before a Hurricane called "negative." Even if they were to yell at their sunbathing neighbors "What are you doing you crazy SOB's?!" I don't think we would call them negative... impolite perhaps but not negative.
To conclude we can have disagreements as to whether we will face greater damage from wind, flooding or zombie hoards but to have an opinion that we are facing a catagory 5, or that the levee will break or that FEMA will prove inadequate is to have a different assessment of trajectory. I find some labels (whether" optimist" or "negative") are attempts to avoid engaging with the ideas and assessments of others...
or perhaps a desire to avoid facing a truth that one sees but cannot bring themselves to admit.
Of course we are all going to view that trajectory differently and make different calculations based upon what we see. _________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
-Friedrich von Schiller
"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable."
John Kenneth Galbraith
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