Should Uncle Sam Actively Seek Out & Deport Illegals?
Yes
77%
[ 47 ]
No
22%
[ 14 ]
Total Votes : 61
Author
Message
TheDude Expert
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 1985 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
Blacksmith wrote:
What can we do to stop american coming into Canada. Prehaps an electic fense.
That a regional pronunciation?
You could build one of of bitumen, sounds like you have enough of the stuff.
What's the EROEI on deporting illegals? _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
"I'm here to tell you that life as you knew it has ended."
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 3217 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
You're absolutely correct. I'll be putting together a longish post later today that supports your position entirely.
I can't wait to read it.
Every time I read an article touting the work of, 'ICE', 'CBP', or 'Border Patrol', or 'Homeland Security', I'm reminded again how gullible people generally are. The exaggeration and complete nonsense most people believe is truly amazing. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 2187 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
From my current viewpoint: I don't object to Mexicans or the citizens of any other country coming to America--As Long As They Do It Legally. I read somewhere that last year, there were more that 147,000 non-Hispanic people who slipped across the southern border. Last week, I read that Cubans were now coming into the US by way of Mexico. (sorry-no links, but read those items online news links)
I most heartily object to our borders being overrun by illegal aliens.
And, because of the future that I foresee due to the affects of PO, I think that illegal aliens will become a more serious problem-there is only going to be so much food, etc., available, and I am just selfish enough to want what the US has to go to US citizens.
I am afraid that when Mexico no longer has oil to sell, there will be a massive, unstoppable migration of Mexicans north. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
They are not going to kick the illegal immigrants out for one reason.
They are going to use the poor bastards for cannon fodder in the resource wars. A lot of the current illegal jobs will either vanish or be usurped by american citizens . A lot of "distasteful jobs" become very "good jobs" when the alternative is being sent to war I would think. The illegals are being set up and really have no way out. They can't run back to where they came from and there will be no way to make a living in america except to be in the military. Any 'citizen ' will turn them in immediately for a bag of rice and some poptarts if they show up looking for work someplace.
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
This post is meant to address some issues brought up by Bas and Eastbay.
For the purposes of this post, I want to define three terms.
Hispanics will refer to a specific ethnic group, and will generally be applied to U.S. citizens of the implied ethnicity.
Mexicans will refer primarily to citizens of the Republic of Mexico, as well as other nations of Central and South America.
Immigration will refer to all immigration, without regard to legality.
Eastbay wrote:
And Jack, there is no way the USA will conduct 'mass deportations' of illegals no matter how beneficial it would be. Remember, the USA spends billions annually putting on an elaborate show 'pretending' to stop illegal border crossings. America could easily and humanely stop nearly all illegal crossings, but we lack the collective will.
Absolutely true - there will be no mass deportations. The problem lies in the terms "beneficial" and "collective will". As matters stand, immigration serves to bring in relatively low priced, generally unskilled workers. Supply and demand forces suggest this will suppress wages among all unskilled and poorly skilled workers in the U.S. Notice this produces some beneficial effects - specifically, lower prices to consumers for those areas that can employ immigrant labor and also higher profits to businesses that use that particular segment of the labor force. Please let me emphasize the word "can" - it does not matter whether a particular business does in fact hire immigrants; wages for all workers in that portion of the labor force are suppressed. Notice too that wage inflation is suppressed by the presence of abundant immigrant labor.
Illegal immigrants have fewer options than do legal immigrants. Therefore, the effect of wage suppression is more pronounced so long as some substantial part of the flow of immigrants are illegal. The flow of illegal immigrants does increase some costs. For example, illegal immigrants will use hospital emergency rooms for medical care, thus increasing the burden on taxpayers. Notice that those who hire illegal immigrants transfer the private costs of employment to the public, thus further enhancing their gains.
What is our collective will? On the one hand, we as a people want low prices. We want cheaper construction (hence lower construction crew wages), cheaper agricultural products (hence lower farm worker wages), and cheaper restaurant meals (hence lower wages again). We also want to avoid the social, economic, and political costs of large-scale immigration. Our will is unclear.
We refuse to choose. This is not unlike a desire to reduce national dependence on foreign oil coupled with a desire to buy large private vehicles.
Because we aren't clear what we want, we are not willing to take such drastic actions as mass deportations. Cheap Mexican labor is too precious to us.
Bas wrote:
For myself, I've grown increasingly hateful of people who really don't care (of whom there are very few IMO), the dumb, the ignorant and the insensitive.
Here, too, the collective will is unclear.
Within Texas, we have numerous schools that are 90% Hispanic, with large populations of at-risk students. At-risk students are those who are regarded as unlikely to finish high school.
In fact, many fail to complete high school. They are locked into a cycle of poverty that is unlikely to be broken over the duration of their lives. Some studies suggest that the pattern is set as early as the third grade. Hispanics in general seek to avoid debt, and many (certainly not all) are in lower socio-economic categories. This further reduces the number who seek, or complete, higher educational programs.
Notice the consequences. We have schools churning out large numbers of unskilled and poorly-skilled workers. These workers compete with immigrant labor. The lowered wages, a consequence of the present immigration policies, tends to foreclose any possibility for numerous Hispanics to advance their socioeconomic status.
Some argue that they care about immigrants who are "seeking a better life". The influx of immigrants will injure the existing population of Hispanics.
If one wishes for wages to unskilled workers to increase, one must reduce the supply of such workers - hence, the influx must be reduced or eliminated.
In a growing, robust economy, the demand for labor would secure advancement for both Hispanics and Mexican immigrants. In a stagnate economy, the present paradigm will suppress wages, creating social costs and friction.
And in a distressed economy? The possibility for significant suffering among the domestic lower socioeconomic strata of all ethnicities looms large. Social unrest and crime seem likely outcomes.
If we expect a shrinking economy, and if we want to protect as much of the domestic population (without regard to ethnic background) as possible from the worst consequences, we ought to consider the effect of continued immigration. We won't of course - just as we won't prepare for peak oil or climate change.
So our Canadian friends to the north had best build a robust electric fence. I think a great many U.S. citizens are going to develop a fondness for vinegar on their French fries. _________________ Dieoff - fun to watch, better with hot buttered popcorn.
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
How do you hippies walk and chew gum at the same time? You honestly think we're on the verge of economic collapse and ecological overshoot and die-off, and you want to IMPORT MORE PEOPLE???
Dumbest fucking bunch of lunatics I've ever heard of.
You should want to GET RID OF AS MANY AS POSSIBLE, PEACEFULLY, before TSHTF.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 3217 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
You should want to GET RID OF AS MANY AS POSSIBLE, PEACEFULLY, before TSHTF.
If I was president I would immediately import about 400,000 US soldiers from all over the world. Each week their officers would hand each of them the name of an illegal alien on a slip of paper. No illegal, no pay check. By executive decree I would announce a national emergency and institute a one year moratorium on all immigration case appeals. In about 6 months 10,000,000 illegals would be exported. After a year, those wrongly deported could appeal and try to gain readmission.
After six months, most of these soldiers would be riffed, but many would then be assigned to patrol the southern border and assist ICE in the streets and CBP in airports.
Six months. No more stupid oil wars. No more illegals. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
eastbay wrote:
If I was president I would immediately import about 400,000 US soldiers from all over the world.
Eastbay, I assure you that you do not need to import soldiers.
There are lots of Americans who would be willing and eager to do those jobs. _________________ Dieoff - fun to watch, better with hot buttered popcorn.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 3217 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
I know Jack... I was thinking of nailing two birds with one stone. You know, save about 200 billion in taxes from the importing of troops and another 100 billion by deporting the illegals.
After that I would move on to other issues such as shredding and recycling every SUV and annexing Alberta, Yukon Territories, and NW Provinces. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
Joined: Sep 30, 2004 Posts: 971 Location: On one of the blades of the fan
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
LOL Ebay!
I understand there is a presidential election in the nearish future. Are you going to stand? At least you have a clear policy
I love the idea of heavily-armed trigger-happy Iraq and Afghanistan vets turning up on someone's lawn and obliterating their SUV. "Courtesy of Uncle Sam". No doubt the various "anti-terror" laws passed by the psychotic boobs currently occupying your government will assist you. All you have to do is declare that Mexicans have links to Al-Queda, and you're pretty well on the way.
That goes double for the Canucks of course. Some of them speak French, for heaven's sake!
Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Posts: 3534 Location: The Great Sonoran Desert
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
Very interesting poll.
The Palestinians too are a fairly raw example of this type of herd mentality.
I get the sense that most people on PO.com that voted in this poll for exportation are not very history savvy, are closed minded elitest, or are just "following the crowd" so to speak.
So the question is why should a native people be exported or worse...??
_________________ "There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that."
With a nationwide farmworker shortage threatening to leave unharvested fruits and vegetables rotting in fields, the Bush administration has begun quietly rewriting federal regulations to eliminate barriers that restrict how foreign laborers can legally be brought into the country.
The effort, urgently underway at the departments of Homeland Security, State and Labor, is meant to rescue farm owners caught in a vise between a complex process to hire legal guest workers and stepped-up enforcement that has reduced the number of illegal planters, pickers and middle managers crossing the border.
"It is important for the farm sector to have access to labor to stay competitive," said White House spokesman Scott Stanzel. "As the southern border has tightened, some producers have a more difficult time finding a workforce, and that is a factor of what is going on today."
We let 'em in or we go hungry. Simple as that. We Yanquis just don't do that kind of work. Without the Mexican farmworkers, the crops rot in the fields. End of story. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
With a nationwide farmworker shortage threatening to leave unharvested fruits and vegetables rotting in fields, the Bush administration has begun quietly rewriting federal regulations to eliminate barriers that restrict how foreign laborers can legally be brought into the country.
The effort, urgently underway at the departments of Homeland Security, State and Labor, is meant to rescue farm owners caught in a vise between a complex process to hire legal guest workers and stepped-up enforcement that has reduced the number of illegal planters, pickers and middle managers crossing the border.
"It is important for the farm sector to have access to labor to stay competitive," said White House spokesman Scott Stanzel. "As the southern border has tightened, some producers have a more difficult time finding a workforce, and that is a factor of what is going on today."
We let 'em in or we go hungry. Simple as that. We Yanquis just don't do that kind of work. Without the Mexican farmworkers, the crops rot in the fields. End of story.
And in exchange for their labor (at a minimum) they are entitled to what us yanks get.
Simple as that. _________________ "There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that."
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 4210 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Uncle Sam says "No Sopa Para Usted" to illegal
Republicans like illegal immigration because Mexicans are happy to work for low wages.
Democrats like illegal immigration because Hispanics are part of the democratic voting block.
The only people hurt by illegal immigration are poor and working class Americans who see their wages depressed and their jobs taken by Mexicans willing to work for lower wages.
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